Azur: STM wants users to move in and back
The STM says the Azur is not as packed with people as it may seem when the door opens. It claims passengers cluster near the doors and don’t move along and occupy the rest of the space inside the trains.
I ride these trains daily, and what Philippe Schnobb says here is key. “This may be because Azur trains have horizontal hand rails that are higher up than earlier models. I’m tall, and I have to stretch to reach them.” He’s right. There are lots of spots in the Azur where a person my height – 5’2″ – can’t reach a handhold. Not that you need to be hanging on for dear life all the time, but I suspect most people want to be within reach of something to grab hold of in case of a sudden lurch.
Another reason not mentioned is that, with the continuous Azur train, if you move in too far from the door at rush hour it can be difficult to extract yourself when you reach your stop. Radio-Canada cites a sociologist saying much the same thing. I don’t know how you fight this tendency, because it isn’t unreasonable.
EmilyG 18:13 on 2019-01-12 Permalink
Also, when the metros are somewhat crowded but not packed, it seems to me that people are often clustered in knots in the middle of the train, while there is lots of space at either extreme end. This might possibly be caused by people arriving on the platform to take the metro, and staying where they arrived instead of spreading out on the platform.
Uatu 18:27 on 2019-01-12 Permalink
Those end cars are SRO so there’s a lot more space, but once again nothing to hold. I usually hold the bars on the single seats if I’m forced to the middle of the car, but I hate being boxed in and trying to move towards the doors is a pain because no one is looking up. They’re staring into a phone, one hand texting while holding a coffee or headphones at full blast so they can’t hear you. I just end up shoving thru the crowd because if you can’t be bothered to notice your surroundings on a crowded metro, then you deserve the shove.
EmilyG 18:42 on 2019-01-12 Permalink
I meant the extreme front and back cars of the train itself.
ant6n 19:15 on 2019-01-12 Permalink
I’ve been complaining since the beginning that they reduced 4 doors per car to 3 doors, thus increasing the distance between doors. I also don’t get how they came up with the handle-bar layout. Sure it looks more spacious/empty inside – but that’s because there’s nothing to hold on to. I would’ve expected more from both the STM and Bombardier in terms of thinking about how their product will be used…
ant6n 19:18 on 2019-01-12 Permalink
The issue with passenger distribution in trains is related to where the exits are in the metro stations. Most stations only have a single exit, and that’s where people congregate. This is particularly pronounced with the Blue Line, where all the ‘interesting’ exits tend to be on the same side of the train, so you get a lopsided distribution of passengers.
Chris 19:38 on 2019-01-12 Permalink
ant6n, surely they are not so clueless that they didn’t _consider_ such things. I imagine there are tradeoffs of some kind at play. Cost? Aesthetics?
Roman 22:14 on 2019-01-12 Permalink
It’s the same problem in a bus usually. People don’t want to miss a stop and hang near the door. I certainly do that and I’m fully conscious of it.
ant6n 22:51 on 2019-01-12 Permalink
@chris i used to trust ppl in charge to make smart decisions and carefully consider trade offs. Nowadays,not so much. Often, important decisions are made on a whim by the gut feeling of somebody who’s in charge but doesn’t understand or doesn’t care about details. Ppl like Coderre, or Cuilliard, etc.
Uatu 10:20 on 2019-01-13 Permalink
Yep. Decisions usually made by someone who will never use what they’ve designed.
Spi 13:50 on 2019-01-13 Permalink
The handrail placement isn’t ideal but I never understood why you want to be near the door the entirety of your journey. You only need to be near the door at your station, if you’re so deathly afraid of missing your stop, start making your way there one station earlier.
James 14:35 on 2019-01-13 Permalink
If the ceiling bars were lower then tall people would hit their heads. Don’t forget that people are generally getting taller and the train will still be in use in 50 years from now.
I actually worked on the design of the Azur cars and I can assure you that EVERY aspect was reviewed. No “whims” or “gut feelings” were involved.
EmilyG 17:47 on 2019-01-13 Permalink
Spi – I agree. Sometimes I have a bit of trouble getting off because people not getting off at that stop are standing near the doors.
Ant6n 18:55 on 2019-01-14 Permalink
So what, vertical bars don’t exist anymore?
I mean come on, the Azur design is one of the most sparse with handle bars that I have come across for a metro train, for a high-acceleration rubber-tyre ride that’s really hard to understand. It’s pretty obvious people people don’t go in the middle aisles, cuz there’s nothing to hold on onto, people are afraid of falling over – so those middle areas are effectively wasted space. I’m not buying the “EVERY aspect was reviewed” claim, even though those in charge may think so. In my mind, a false sense of ‘we considered every option’ isn’t much better than making decisions on a whim.
Raymond Lutz 08:24 on 2019-01-15 Permalink
@James: OK then… at a rate of 3 cm/100 yr, in how many years the top 10% tallest people will bang their head on an horizontal bar now accessible for the top 10% smallest? Give me numbers.