New quarantine rules may be coming
According to the Journal, new quarantine rules may be announced on Sunday including a one-kilometre limit to one’s excursions from home on foot. They also have a map of hotspots on the island.
Strong report on reddit of worsening adherence to traffic laws. I haven’t been out, have people noticed this?
EmilyG 16:38 on 2020-03-28 Permalink
Darn. Today was my first day I dared to go out for a walk.
Kate 17:50 on 2020-03-28 Permalink
Well, it’s not yet a rule, and 1 km is not too bad. However, this seems to be based on the Paris model, which is also based on existing French rules that you need to have a piece of paper with you explaining why you have to be outside, and a deeper French concept that you need to have your ID on you at all times. We don’t have that, so police can hardly ascertain where we live, can they?
If stopped, you could point and say “I live just over there” and they would probably not go to the trouble of demanding anything more official.
I don’t think they’re going to create such a law, but I think 1 km is a good guideline.
Alison Cummins 20:28 on 2020-03-28 Permalink
Worsening adherence to traffic laws… like walking the dogs down the middle of the street for social distancing?
That would be me.
Ephraim 20:51 on 2020-03-28 Permalink
They need to do something about assuring people in senior’s homes can get groceries. I can’t find a slot for delivery to get my mother groceries. Leaving me required to pick them up and delivery them to the building. I can do this, but I’m sure that some of the seniors don’t have people to do this.
EmilyG 22:02 on 2020-03-28 Permalink
Yes, Ephraim. There was a piece on the radio recently about that.
John B 22:22 on 2020-03-28 Permalink
We tried to order from Metro, the first delivery date was 10 days away. IGA was only offering pick-up dates, no delivery. This was about a week ago, hopefully it’s improved. I know a lot of smaller shops have got delivery up & running in the past few days.
When I’ve been out biking on the streets, (where there are few people, as opposed to the bike paths that are full), I’ve seen a few cars, (and motorbikes – it’s spring after all), stomping on the gas, but that’s it.
Kevin 22:49 on 2020-03-28 Permalink
I hit the grocery store Friday because the first online pickup date I could find was April 7.
And even then, being able to pickup at the latest possible time of 6 to 7 pm would be difficult for me or my wife.
I was there from 6:20 until 8:20. Madness.
But I should be able to go weeks without needing anything in case my household needs to go into lockdown.
Raymond Lutz 09:15 on 2020-03-29 Permalink
This is unwarranted … in China they estimates that 75-80% of infections occurred in HOUSEHOLDS (sorry, too lazy to dig up the source). We have to gather at the grocery, and we’ll get infected there… FFS! Why nobody follow South Korea protocols! They closed schools but “did not use draconian lockdown strategies”
But wearing a mask in public should be mandatory, for both inward and outward protections. South-Korea mantra was ” Test, trace and treat”
I don’t know if they quarantined positive people in special centers… Here we’re 5 in the household, if my spouse get infected at her daycare (where she must work) it will be a rough ride …
Kevin 10:17 on 2020-03-29 Permalink
Raymond Lutz
Stupid as it sounds, people need training to properly wear masks and gloves.
Alison Cummins 11:10 on 2020-03-29 Permalink
YouTube videos show how to put on a mask.
We aren’t doing surgery.
Homemade masks are fine for most everyday purposes. Keep them dry, change the filter (paper towel?) regularly so it doesn’t get damp. Will protect you from doing stupid things like touching your face or for licking your fingers when you’re trying to open a soft plastic bag. Will protect other people from your cooties. Will protect you from a lot of cooties.
If you’re going into a hospital or doing chest compressions on someone, you can get into a lot of heated arguments about whether a homemade mask is better or worse than nothing. Either way, it will matter a lot whether you put it on right. But for just walking around and doing groceries, it’s a reasonable precaution for protecting OTHER PEOPLE and might even protect you.
The coolest thing a homemade mask does, and which it does effectively no matter how poorly you put it on, is scare other people into maintaining their social distance.
Kevin 11:30 on 2020-03-29 Permalink
My perspective is different because my wife has a PhD in infectious disease, did pharmaceutical research on a bunch of viruses, then became an MD. She’s currently advising a covid-19 task force for a hospital.
The stupid stuff she has seen people do while wearing masks and gloves (even last week!) has convinced me that without massive training the only thing that will work for the masses is the simplest solution: stay away from each other, stay inside if warranted, and wash your hands.
David100 12:46 on 2020-03-29 Permalink
I take some small delight in the “Airbnb apocalypse” stories I’m reading coming out of London, and other places. Given Montreal reporters’ stock move of spotting trends in other places/publications, then reporting on the local version (even if there’s nothing to report), I’m surprised that we’ve not yet seen a dive into the woe afflicting Montreal Airbnb “entrepreneurs” at the moment.
Alison Cummins 13:23 on 2020-03-29 Permalink
Kevin,
Masks have helped *elsewhere* when 60%-80% of the people wear them. Possibly The Masses get used to using them properly when it’s the Done Thing?
Question: if The Masses can’t learn to put on a mask properly, do we really trust them to learn to wash their hands properly, maintain social distance properly and not give themselves improper exceptional excuses for going outside and travelling and visiting their old people?
Personally I find a mask useful for heightening awareness. MY awareness. I’m more likely to be religious about washing my hands for 20 seconds when I’m wearing a mask. I am definitely a lot less likely to lick my fingers to help open my dog’s poop bag when I’m wearing a mask. Also people give me 3 to 4 m of social distance when I wear a mask outside. I’m fine with that.
Washing my hands protects me. When I wear a mask it’s primarily to protect other people.
My father is 78 and has lived a full life. Under normal circumstances I would let him make his own choices. Problem: he has a 38-year-old diabetic wife and a nine-year old daughter. I DO NOT WANT THAT DAUGHTER ORPHANED AND ON MY HANDS. She’s a doll but I am an old fuddy-duddy and live in a province that speaks a different language and have a dog that bites kids. He is hard to educate about social distancing and I need to video chat with him daily to remind him. (He touched somebody the other day and washed his hands like mad.) The entire household needs to act as if they are as vulnerable as he is. That’s a big ask.
I would be happiest if the nerdy tenant doing my father’s errands and fixing his electronics wore a mask when he’s over at the house, in addition to washing his hands. My father is dependent on that tenant, likes him. and is unlikely to keep 2 m away if the tenant is not flagging him with a scary mask.
My father is an educated, worldly man. His father and grandfather were doctors, both around for the 1918 flu. He’s disciplined and stopped smoking cold turkey when I asked him to when I was six. He never relapsed. He’s also survived HepB, typhoid, malaria, cancer and probably other interesting things. He wavers between feeling invincible and feeling like he’s stretched his luck.
He should be easy to educate, but he isn’t. He’s 78 and learning new things is hard.
I would be glad if his tenant wore a mask to visit him, in addition to washing his hands.
+++ +++ +++
Kevin, I know that your wife knows better than I do! I also know that the smarter people are, the better they are at rationalizing and that I am smart enough to rationalize and am therefore a potential danger to self and others.
My rationalization at the moment is that appropriate public health recommendations are always based on local conditions.
1. When it’s not common practice to wear a mask, people won’t do it properly.
2. People around here, in our individualistic society, may believe that a mask will offer much more personal protection than it does and socialize inappropriately or neglect hand-washing. As a general recommendation, masks risk being counterproductive.
3. Unless 60%-80% of the population wear masks, the public health benefit is quite limited.
4. When there’s a limited supply of proper medical-grade protective masks, it makes a lot more sense to reserve the masks for health care providers and not encourage The Masses to waste them on themselves.
Something like that?
So I rationalize that I am special and exceptional because my personal local conditions are special and exceptional. I make my own masks; I am a lifelong face-eyes-and-nose-rubber-and-scratcher; I’ve never been particularly afraid of dirt and learning new habits is hard; I educate people that a mask is to protect others, not myself or my father’s tenant. I haven’t been tested and am breathing easily, but (like most people) I have no special reason to think I’m not incubating an infection.
Am I that off-base? Am I a danger to self and others?
LJ 16:34 on 2020-03-29 Permalink
If you have a dog that bites kids, that dog should not be left unleashed outside ever.
Raymond Lutz 17:31 on 2020-03-29 Permalink
Soupir… combien de gens consultent les articles que je réfère.. mon commentaire de 09:15 renvoyait à ‘COVID-19/ WHY WE SHOULD ALL WEAR MASKS — THERE IS NEW SCIENTIFIC RATIONALE écrit par Sui Huang, MD, PhD, a molecular and cell biologist. How’s that for science credo?
“the only thing that will work for the masses ” is popular education, via tiktok, no less 😎 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5mhUQgP3V8
Raymond Lutz 17:33 on 2020-03-29 Permalink
‘science creds’
Kevin 18:01 on 2020-03-29 Permalink
Alison,
I don’t think you’re off-base. I think that there is a whole educational component that our society requires and we’re not there yet. I don’t know if we ever will get there.