Red zones likely to be extended
Quebec’s red zones are likely to be extended when François Legault holds his presser Monday afternoon. But a revolt is brewing, as 200 owners of gyms, yoga schools, dojos and so forth are poised to defy any further measures and reopen later this week regardless.
Ephraim 09:45 on 2020-10-26 Permalink
I wonder what they will say if they are the centre of an outbreak and Quebec specifically mentions them by name. This is the kind of thing that can ruin a business for a LONG time.
walkerp 10:32 on 2020-10-26 Permalink
So much rolleyes. The mental health of their clients argument is particularly annoying. “Wellness” is the ultimate symptom of the extreme individualism that marks these times. If physical fitness is what you need to maintain your mental well-being then go do it outside, where you will get even more benefits.
Douglas 12:08 on 2020-10-26 Permalink
I support them opening up.
If the government can’t prove those places were the cause of outbreaks, then don’t shut them down.
And they haven’t proved that gyms were where people were having mass outbreaks.
Douglas 12:11 on 2020-10-26 Permalink
walkerp.
The government used the entire “mental health” mumbo jumbo argument for keeping certain businesses open during the lockdown. So the gyms should use the same mumbo jumbo and open.
These businesses are livelihoods, its how food gets put on the table for people.
Covid is going to be with us for another 6-8 months. Might as well live with it rather than put your head under a rock and try to pretend you will eradicate it, when we failed to do so after 7 months.
Andrew 12:26 on 2020-10-26 Permalink
One spin class in Hamilton followed all the distancing guidelines, screened everyone for symptoms and still turned into a superspreader event with 74 cases.
https://www.refinery29.com/en-ca/2020/10/10097157/spinco-hamilton-superspreader-event
So at least one mass outbreak.
walkerp 12:48 on 2020-10-26 Permalink
Just because the government’s policies are not totally coherent does not mean you get to make yourself an exception. This virus is extremely pernicious. We all have to make sacrifices. I’m sorry for the people that run those gyms. It sucks. I’m really freaked out about the local Y, which I used to go to almost every day. Will it even survive? It’s terrible. But this is a war, we all have to sacrifice for the greater good. Indoor exercise spaces are ideal covid-19 distribution zones: small spaces, many people breathing heavily. Go outside and exercise.
MarcG 13:02 on 2020-10-26 Permalink
Can someone explain to me what the worst case scenario is for small business owners under these circumstances? They can’t pay their rent or the loans they took out to start the business so declare bankruptcy… then go on EI…? Or are there any systems in place for rent and loan forgiveness to help them coast through?
Ephraim 13:31 on 2020-10-26 Permalink
Change the requirements for them to open up. Require HEPA filtering with air circulation being changed every 5 minutes and employees cleaning the machinery between customers. It takes 10 minutes to clean the machine between uses, as the chemicals need to stay WET for 10 minutes to work. (Read the packaging.) If they can certify this, let them open…. with one caveat, if they are found to be the centre of a spread, they will be required to pay a fine per client or close for x days per client, plus the name of the place will be publicly announced, so that people who went there know to be tested….
Douglas, unlike the United States, we have an economic circle of responsibility in Canada. What one business does in this regards can lead to hospital bills that we all, as a society pay for. You don’t get to do what you want just because you want to do it. We have food inspection at restaurants, etc.
jeather 13:40 on 2020-10-26 Permalink
The problem is that you can’t predict which given gym might have an outbreak. That place in Hamilton, it wasn’t more lax than all the others, it was unlucky. And some gym will be unlucky, not because they are bad but because gyms are particularly good at spreading. It really is terrible for gyms; I don’t know what the solution is. But it isn’t to just shut them when any one gym happens to have an outbreak.
Joey 16:10 on 2020-10-26 Permalink
@jeather isn’t it, though? If you know any one (more likely more than one) is likely to be the centre of an outbreak, why *not* close them all until case counts start growing at a more manageable rate – especially given the many different support programs available to small business owners?
jeather 17:20 on 2020-10-26 Permalink
I was saying you can’t just say “well, we will close any gym if and only if that gym has an outbreak”, because it’s not about one gym having bad practices, it’s about gyms being unsafe in general and which gym has the outbreak would be due to bad luck. I agree that they should be closed right now.
Douglas 18:39 on 2020-10-26 Permalink
70% of deaths in Canada come from people 80 years old and above.
We are bankrupting entire industries for 80 year olds that don’t even frequent these establishments.
Genius.
Douglas 18:41 on 2020-10-26 Permalink
MarcG
Businesses have nothing. 0 for personal.
They have partial rent from the government.
After that, there is no way to put food on the table for their own families when there is no income from their business.
MarcG 09:05 on 2020-10-27 Permalink
Since Douglas is obviously not to be trusted on this subject I did a tiny bit of research myself and found that the province is offering loans which may not need to be repaid if they are used to pay for the following things during forced closure: municipal and school taxes, rent (the part not covered by another government program), interest on a mortgage, utility costs (e.g., electricity, gas), insurance, telecommunication costs, association fees and licenses (https://www.cfib-fcei.ca/en/advocacy/employment-and-labour/quebec-covid-19-relief-measures-for-your-business). Also the feds are offering to cover 90% of rent cost with the Canada Emergency Rent Subsidy (https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/news/2020/10/government-announces-new-targeted-support-to-help-businesses-through-pandemic.html). There’s a wage subsidy as well so if you stay open for take out and delivery then paying your employees doesn’t cost as much. There’s a bunch of stuff about interest-free loans as well, so presumably you could take one of those and swap it for your existing non-interest-free loan.
Kate 09:54 on 2020-10-27 Permalink
MarcG, thanks for all the research. The links in your comment meant it was automatically held for approval, sorry about the delay posting.
MarcG 09:32 on 2020-10-27 Permalink
More thoughts on small business owners: a business which is forced to close completely, like gyms, has the government covering most of their business expenses, but it’s true that they have no income, so they would have to dip into saving or take out a loan. For a very small business, like some of those tiny gyms you see, I imagine they’ll close and declare bankruptcy or something, but presumably the owner of Energie Cardio has a few bucks put aside for a rainy day, or other investments that generate income, and won’t starve to death while they wait this out.
Also:
Viruses are not like fires, you don’t have to be inside the burning building in order to get hurt. The people leave the gyms/restaurants/bars and spread it around.
Death is not the only negative outcome. You’re not considering the fact that being ill is horrible and that hospitals have limits.
JaneyB 09:37 on 2020-10-27 Permalink
@ Douglas – Post-covid illness may be more troubling (and expensive) than the death rate. It is not just about the aged.
We’re surrounded by fresh air and people stayed fit before gyms. I hate the covid restrictions too and all the idiots who can’t do simple things but the bottom line is that the hospitals can only bear so much. Europe is falling over a cliff. Our numbers are holding and on the way down in Montreal. Steady, as she goes.