Jean-Talon market: multiple reasons for trouble
La Presse looked at the reasons for a slight decline in fortunes at the Jean-Talon market, and their conclusions are a little more subtle than simple parking issues. Another reason is that some of the farmers were getting old and nobody was interested in taking up their business as they retired, leaving empty stalls in the market, which – like empty storefronts on a street – is not good for the overall vibe.
Blork 11:17 on 2019-08-12 Permalink
I wonder if the big grocery store chains don’t play a role, in the way many of them have been re-designing themselves to feel more upscale and “market-like” over the past decade. (Provigo, Metro, and IGA have all been doing this, particularly at their larger suburban stores.) Those presentations provide the illusion of the kind of freshness you get at the market.
I reckon people go to the JTM for some combination of these four things: (1) freshness, (2) price, (3) social (i.e., it’s a thing to do, and there are lots of people around), (4) proximity of high quality other stores like Joe La Croute (bakery), some butchers, poissonerie, fromagerie, etc.
Now let’s deconstruct:
(1) Freshness. Hard to beat, but when things are in season (tomatoes, apples, corn) the big grocery stores have gotten pretty good at getting stuff directly from farmer to consumer.
(2) Price. Prices of seasonal produce at the big grocery stores are typically lower than at the JTM. Also, the price is marked at the grocery stores, so you don’t have to go through the trouble of asking, then asking the next one, then asking the next one (etc) to get the best price. Last week I went to a kiosk at an actual farm to get corn, and the corn was literally still warm from the field, but it was late in the day and everything was picked over and only the runts remained. Price not marked. 20 minutes later I was at Provigo where I could buy plump, local, freshly picked corn at four for a dollar. (I rarely go with that option; I’m just pointing it out.)
(3) Social. Not much to say about this other than that it’s mostly a weekend phenomenon, and all it really brings to the market is crowds; not so much open wallets. The “social” people will go there, get a coffee, maybe an ice cream or a sandwich, and walk out with a bag of carrots and two tomatoes.
(4) Proximity of other stores. This is what keeps the JTM viable all year. But every neighbourhood has its bespoke stores these days. A couple of decades ago there were shitty stores all over and then clusters of good stores in a handful of neighbourhoods. But now you don’t have to go to the JTM to get good bread, good meat, or (FFS) little precious jars of overpriced tasty things. And once again, the big grocery chains all have their bespoke little nooks in them, selling fancy this or that. I was in an IGA the other day that had a permanent kiosk housing a tea boutique (separate staff, payment, etc.) and next to that were two other boutiques. This is INSIDE the IGA store!
Not sure what my point is; just making observations.
Ephraim 14:50 on 2019-08-12 Permalink
I love the markets, but hate their prices or their way of not telling you the real prices. Selling something in nonstandard containers or selling you a volume instead of giving you a price per kg. At least with a supermarket, I can see that grapes are $6.58 per kilo… at the market, they put it into a container with no weight… guess at the real price…c’mon!
Jack 16:57 on 2019-08-12 Permalink
My goodness I was just there on Saturday and the place was jammed with happy buying customers. The idea that market is going downhill comes from that initial letter by a guy who complained primarily about car access. This is a trope used by people who cant get used to the fact that their unlimited access is now being challenged… everywhere. I talked to an employee at Birri’s who told me that they would probably leave next year….I said bye.
Jonathan 17:16 on 2019-08-12 Permalink
I agree that all of this is bullshit. I went to the market Saturday and Sunday this weekend and it seemed busier than I have ever seen it.
If there were any empty spaces, they were filled with people eating and enjoying themselves.
Tim S 20:37 on 2019-08-12 Permalink
Admittedly I haven’t been to Jean Talon for a few years, but when I worked there crowds never correlated with actual receipts at the cash. The market makes a lot of its money from people who buy really bulk amounts, and like the guy said in the article, vegetables are heavy. So yeah, I get why people would want to make it more pleasant by pedestrianising it, but the market is really huge, and probably can’t survive at its current size with only pedestrian/public transit customers. Maybe that’s for the best, but like I said in a previous post, be careful what you wish for.
Also, those customers were elderly years ago, and like some of the stall holders, must be dying off. I don’t know if their kids are as into canning as they were.
That said, I think Blork and Ephraim are also onto something. I was at Atwater this week, and apart from a couple of items that are hard to find in grocery stores, most things were more expensive than in a grocery store, and the way they displayed some of the items almost felt like a scam.
Kate 23:39 on 2019-08-12 Permalink
Tim S., I think you’re onto something. A friend’s mother, from Sicily, used to put up a lot of homemade tomato sauce every year. Bushels of Roma tomatoes all simmering away in her kitchen. But she’s gone now and her kids don’t follow suit. And she was typical of a whole generation who, if still even alive, are past the heroic kitchen exploit of canning three dozen jars of tomato sauce in a weekend.
JaneyB 11:51 on 2019-08-13 Permalink
I thought canning was having a resurgence thanks to the millenial ‘maker crowd’. I doubt it has reached the scale of the Old World grandmas canning bees though.
Atwater Market’s produce prices are not cheap and mostly not organic enough to justify those prices. Good flowers and fancy meats though and of course jars of every kind of specialty condiment.
Michael Black 12:21 on 2019-08-13 Permalink
St Anne’s has a market on Saturday mornings through much of the year, ndoors n the winter. I’ve been a few times, because I was out that way.
There is produce, but most of the booths are selling products. So someone sells burritos they put together on site, someone sells indian food (she offers it frozen), Quinn Farms has pies at least, someone is selling honey or maple syrup, that sort of thing.
It’s not a big spread, but it serves that social aspect and gives the sellers easier access to customers. I suspect it might bring peoole to the town, though maybe as an added target rather than to bring people just for the market.
It seemed busy enough the times I’ve been, but I can’t tell if they are browsers or buyers.
We see this sort of thing in more central Montreal, a newer wave of markets that are less permanent than traditional markets.
Michael
CE 12:57 on 2019-08-13 Permalink
I like the market but I agree with JaneyB, a lot of the produce is very overpriced and, especially with the bigger booths, seem to be the same as the produce you find in any grocery store. Many of the vendors don’t even say where their produce come from and often say “grown without pesticides” but without organic certification, that could mean just about anything.