Updates from April, 2020 Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts

  • Kate 09:18 on 2020-04-29 Permalink | Reply  

    The Journal says the city will distribute masks but not how or where.

    Mayor Plante has been hinting she has plans to make summer fun despite the loss of festivals. To be honest, I think to many Montrealers the festivals are mostly tourist bait, and since there won’t be tourism this summer the city will save money on the intensive policing and cleaning up of the Quartier des spectacles, downtown and the islands that must have to be done normally.

    One of Plante’s intentions is to open community gardens with certain safeguards in place. Since most planting isn’t done till May, the season should be pretty much as usual for gardeners.

    For myself, I’ll miss the street fairs, which I always used to enjoy, but which I doubt can take place this year.

     

    • Spi 10:54 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

      Given how those 50 000 masks are intended for the neediest and vulnerable it’s understandable that it wasn’t communicated where and through which organization they’d be distributed. The last thing we need is people lining up for free masks.

    • Chris 17:19 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

      Elated to see they reversed course on the community gardens! Ontario declared them an essential service a couple of weeks ago, the difference was striking.

      Stopping people from growing food while there are queues outside food stores seemed really odd to me.

    • PO 10:21 on 2020-04-30 Permalink

      I’m going to have to disagree with you, Kate, on the point about the city saving money. Based only on my own assumptions (and I’m happy to be proven wrong) any clean-up/security/spending costs will probably be negligible in comparison to the amount of revenue that will be lost from not having big tourism in town this summer.

      Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting we re-open anything for the just for the sake of the economy. This all certainly has to be done to protect peoples’ health and to respect the capacity of the healthcare system. But any massive hit to summer tourism dollars will have net negative effects on the economics of the city, directly and indirectly.

    • Kate 20:04 on 2020-04-30 Permalink

      PO, sadly, you’re probably right. I was just trying to see an upside.

  • Kate 09:05 on 2020-04-29 Permalink | Reply  

    Some grade schools in Montreal were overcrowded before the pandemic began, so parents fear the consequences of sending kids back to a place where it would be impossible to practice social distancing.

     

    • Ian 09:00 on 2020-04-30 Permalink

      If only we had some kind of system of local organizations that could organize efforts between a bunch of schools made up of expert administrators familiar with the resources available to the schools collectively. Maybe they could form some kind of committee, a kind of school “board”, if you will.

  • Kate 19:02 on 2020-04-28 Permalink | Reply  

    The Gazette’s Aaron Derfel lays out why he thinks François Legault’s reopening plans are wrong-headed (Twitter thread).

     

    • Douglas 19:12 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

      It’s gonna be 6 weeks by now.

      There’s enough data now from Sweden to do exactly what they are doing. Open things up + add physical distancing.

      We are literally witnessing another country do it 100% smarter than we are, 6 weeks in. Time to get with the program and do what they are doing.

      https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/28/europe/sweden-coronavirus-lockdown-strategy-intl/index.html

    • walkerp 19:56 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

      Douglas did you even read the headline, let alone the article itself?
      “Sweden says its coronavirus approach has worked. The numbers suggest a different story”

    • Douglas 20:33 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

      I read the entire article from top to bottom. It tells me Sweden has kept this under control. Their death rates per million are about the same or less than many countries that locked down completely.

    • Dr David Banner 21:21 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

      Aaron Derfel is a journalist. Assessing the merits of a public health approach to dealing with an epidemic is well above his pay grade, regardless of whether his beat is the medical scene. He should stay in his lane.

    • walkerp 21:41 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

      Starting to see some troll behaviours here, Kate.

    • Ian 21:48 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

      Well ok then here’s my question of the day –
      Montreal primary schools reopening on the 18th? Why is Legault going against the Institut national de santé publique du Québec?
      https://twitter.com/INSPQ/status/1254878992227852288
      “Une stratégie où on laisserait les jeunes s’infecter risque d’entraîner une forte augmentation de la maladie chez les adultes et de besoins en services hospitaliers et en soins intensifs sans atteindre la cible d’immunité de groupe recherchée.”

      All jokes aside this is the real thought process going on with Legault et al. The Institut national de santé publique du Québec is publicly speaking out against the “herd immunity” theory. Legault has been fooling us with his smooth paternalistic vibe but let’s not forget, he’s a money guy at heart and the economy is way more important to him than Montreal’s infection rates. Let’s face it, the CAQ hates Montreal anyway, they probably see our death rate as collateral damage.

    • Kevin 22:56 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

      It’s nice to see people like Douglas advocating for Sweden’s super high tax rate.
      And hey, they killed off as many people as Canada did while having less than 1/3 our population.

    • Kevin 23:07 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

      Ian
      Legault’s trio has been saying herd immunity in English and natural immunity in French. Neither of which has been solidly established yet for Covid-19.

      I have to wonder if Legault is aware that testing numbers dropped within the past week.

      In any case, I’m with Aaron: I see no signs that Quebec is ready to do the testing and tracing other authorities recommend be in place before reopening.

    • Dhomas 06:02 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

      Sweden’s deaths per millions are worse than the US’, and no one is saying that the US is handling this pandemic well. I don’t get it.

      https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million?tab=chart&year=2020-04-21&country=CAN+DNK+FIN+DEU+NOR+SWE+USA

    • dwgs 07:20 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

      @ Dr David Banner What a well thought and logical refutations of Derfel’s points, you’ve really opened my eyes.

    • Kate 09:28 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

      Seems “Dr David Banner” was the name of Bill Bixby’s character on “The Incredible Hulk”.

    • Meezly 09:32 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

      Agree with Ian that Legault is finally showing his true colours again. We saw it in how he dealt with the railway protests. Now he is willing to sacrifice lives in the name of economic recovery.

    • Ian 09:00 on 2020-04-30 Permalink

      @Kate you don’t want to make him angry 😀

  • Kate 18:34 on 2020-04-28 Permalink | Reply  

    The delay in starting street-cleaning parking rules is over. People with cars can check on this page exactly when their borough will switch ’em on.

     

    • Kate 17:09 on 2020-04-28 Permalink | Reply  

      Dr. Mylène Drouin said Tuesday that masks “must become a social norm” in closed public spaces. I put mine on before going into the fruiterie just now, and by the time I got out I was glad to take it off again. (Nobody around here is wearing them in the street.)

      But it crossed my mind: has anyone realized how much people are going to hate wearing masks when the weather turns warmer?

       

      • Blork 17:49 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        The part of the whole mask-wearing thing that people don’t usually mention is that you’re supposed to launder them after every use (unless you’re using disposables). I have two at the moment, but I only go to the grocery store once a week so it’s no biggie. But for people going to work on the Metro and whatnot, technically your mask is dirty by the time you get to work, so you need to wear a different one on the way home, and that doesn’t include any mask wearing you do during your workday. It’s all a bit too much, so people will either not wear them, or will wear “dirty” ones of questionable benefit.

        (Filed under hyper-vigilant, in which you wear your mask at the same level of vigilance as you would if you were a surgeon or whatever. Maybe not necessary. But if your mask has caught some particles during your shopping trip, then touching the mask to take it on and off will contaminate your hands, and even breathing deeply will pull the particles right through any homemade mask.)

      • Blork 17:50 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        Oh, and the above largely does not apply if your primary reason for wearing a mask is to prevent YOU from spreading the virus to others.

      • DeWolf 19:31 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        I went out grocery shopping today and wore a mask in the supermarket. I guess maybe 50 percent of the customers and 90 percent of the staff were wearing masks. It’s far from universal. The efficacy of masks (especially homemade masks) is questionable, but from what I’ve read, it makes enough of a difference to be worth doing, even if you aren’t wearing them perfectly. I hope more people get into the habit of putting on a mask when they go indoors even if it means they’re wearing their mask a couple more times than they ought to. As many others have noted, masks are primarily useful in preventing you from spreading illness to others, so it really only works if everyone is wearing them.

      • GC 20:44 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        Definitely far from universal. I went on my weekly grocery-buying trip. Less than 50% of the staff were wearing one and maybe 10% of the customers? When I went out in the evening for a walk, about half the people who were in masks had their noses out and the mas kind of loosely hanging below. Is there really any point if you’re not going to wear it properly?

        Also: what happened to the suggestion that people wearing face coverings in public was a threat our culture? Wasn’t that only last year? I guess it really wasn’t about the face covering after all…

      • Ian 21:49 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        But they said it was an essential feature of our society to be able to see each other’s faces, even to get government services or teach or provide medical services
        … were they making stuff up? /s

      • Kate 10:13 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

        Over the last week, I shopped a couple of times, and ran into radically different procedures.

        Rachelle-Béry is running a tight ship. You line up, then you’re questioned when you go in, hands sanitized, then you have to clean and sanitize the handle of your shopping cart. Shopping baskets have been taken away. Signs ask you to minimize touching the produce. There’s plexi at the checkout, and the cashier will sanitize the counter after you’ve packed up your stuff.

        The other location, a neighbourhood grocery store, no hand sanitizer, no masks, no limits on people going in. One of the cashiers was wearing a mask, otherwise things were much as usual.

    • Kate 13:45 on 2020-04-28 Permalink | Reply  

      It’s never good news when a bookstore goes out of business: Librairie Olivieri, on Côte‑des‑Neiges, is closed.

       

      • JP 22:41 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        A guy took me out on a date to their bistro last fall. It didn’t work out between us, but I liked it there and had hoped to go back. I know it was owned by Renaud Bray and that there is a Renaud Bray store across the street too, but it does indeed suck to lose another bookstore.

      • Ian 07:44 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

        That’s interesting – are there other “independent” stores owned by Renaud-Bray that you know of?

        That’s a great, if somewhat manipulative branding strategy.

      • Michael Black 08:07 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

        Paragraphe Books was owned by Archambault at some point and then it and other stores were bought by Renaud-Bray. So maybe that’s when this store came under the chain too.

        I had to look because I did remember Paragraphe was bought but remained “independent”, but wasn’t sure of who bought it.

        There is precedence. I forget the name, but there was a nice book store in Ottawa which eventually opened in Les Cours Mont Royal in the late eighties. It kept the name until it eventually closed, but it was actually owned by Chapters which maybe was still Coles at that point. The few stores may have even been owned by Chapters by the time it opened in Montreal. But its ownership was kept quiet.

      • Kate 10:17 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

        Ian, what independent bookstores even still exist? The stores for new books that are still around are either chains or pretty small, like L’Écume des jours, which used to be on St‑Viateur but moved up to Villeray when priced out by the owners of the street. I don’t think they were ever bought out. Argo Books amazingly is still going. I doubt Heather Reisman feels they’re a thorn in her side.

      • Michael Black 10:37 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

        Most of the time it seems like “used book stores” are conflated with “independent book stores” .

        But I think the new-book store on Queen Mary is still there. Babaar Books for children is still around, even if they closed the outlet on Greene. There’s a store in Montreal West that I think is new-books, but maybe specifically children’s. I think there’s at least one in Pointe Claire, but I’m not certain.

      • jeather 10:41 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

        There’s a new one in St Henri (Librarie St Henri Books). There’s a tiny one on Queen Mary a bit west of Decarie (Bibliophile). Argo Books, as you noted. Drawn & Quarterly, Appetite for Books, thre are one or two in Verdun — I’m not longer in the habit of finding books by browsing in store, but when I do, there are lots of options.

      • ottokajetan 10:47 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

        Librarie du Square on Bernard is new-ish and nice

      • walkerp 13:48 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

        You can order from Argo books online and they will deliver them to your door for a $5 fee.

        A very nice service of which I have taken advantage during the pandemic shutdown.

      • CE 14:44 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

        I just purchased a book from Argo. It’s always been one of my favourite bookstores. Librarie St Henri Books is worth checking out when they open again. It’s a very nice store with a great selection. There’s also a group of three stores with different names but all seem to be the same company (La Librairie de Verdun, Librairie Livresse in Little Burgundy, and Librairie Les passages in Lachine). I haven’t been to any of them but looked in the window of the shop in Little Burgundy and it seemed nice. Montreal is lucky to still have so many bookstores and we should support them as much as possible.

      • Kate 21:18 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

        Librairie St-Henri really is nice. I discovered it when I was working down that way last year. I hope they come out of this OK – they’re around the corner from Notre-Dame so they’re a little out of sight, I find.

        ottokajetan, I remember the Librairie du Square that was opposite Carré St-Louis – I suppose this one is a branch of it? I liked the vibe a lot, but to be honest, I don’t buy many French books.

        In fact, I don’t buy many physical books at all any more. That’s part of the problem for the independents, I think: if I wanted a physical book I’d choose an independent, but if I want an ebook, it’s not likely the indie will be offering that service.

      • Michael Black 22:02 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

        I remember when Paragraphe got into Ebooks early, almost thirty years ago. So you’d buy a PDA as a reader drop by the store to look over their limited selection, and bring home a package with the book. Or maybe that was just presentation, I remember a glass case with tye ebooks on display. And I have no idea what was in those boxes (which looked like how audio books were presented).

    • Kate 13:42 on 2020-04-28 Permalink | Reply  

      As François Legault announces plans to reopen Quebec for business, Montreal just surpassed 1000 deaths from COVID-19 (Santé Québec says 1,039).

       

      • mare 15:25 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        If Montreal was a country (and these are for the island not including north and south shore) we would be placed near Spain and Italy on the fatalities-per-million list at around 500/MM. including the burbs we would still be in the top ten. (That top ten includes mini-countries with less than 50 deaths, but a tiny population.)

      • Tim S. 16:00 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        Worth repeating: when the shut down started on March 12, we had 12 confirmed cases in Quebec. That grew to 25,000, despite the social distancing. Now that there only 800ish new cases a day (without testing the general population) we can start talking about re-opening? I feel like the government is tempting fate just because they’re bored.

      • Mark Côté 17:08 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        Thing is, Montreal is not a country; it is a dense city. A better comparison would be with Madrid (population 3.3 million in the city proper, 6.5 million in the metro area, so 150%ish that of Montreal), which has had 13 000 covid-related deaths (we have about 13 000 *cases*).

        There are better ways to make arguments against relaxing restrictions than comparing apples to oranges.

    • Kate 11:55 on 2020-04-28 Permalink | Reply  

      I’m told the world’s biggest cargo plane, an AN-225, will be landing at Mirabel Thursday night to bring PPE to Quebec. That’s a Globe & Mail inaccessible link, but Twitter has confirmed it.

      I hope someone can video that big bird coming in for a landing.

       

      • Bill Binns 12:44 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        The world’s 2nd largest cargo plane may be needed to return the defective portion of the load back to China.

      • Bert 15:41 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        I can see plane-geeks (like me) camping out on the 50!

        That 2nd largest plane is arguably the 225’s little brother, the 124! I remember seeing one at YMX in the late 90’s. Quite impressive.

        That Globe link seems to work fine and is not pay-walled.

      • Kate 16:01 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        Hmm, it was for me. Maybe you have a free account and were logged in?

      • Blork 16:35 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        The G&M article works for me too, and I am most def not logged in. Kate, maybe you reached an article limit? (Try going there in a private window.)

      • Kate 17:04 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        Maybe they realized it’s a virus story and opened it? They seem to have a policy of making virus stories open.

      • EmilyG 18:00 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

        There is a story on Radio-Canada’s website, that everyone should be able to access for free.
        https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1698336/avion-cargaison-blouses-coronavirus-materiel-protection

    • Kate 09:21 on 2020-04-28 Permalink | Reply  

      Those red Jump bikes will be back soon – as the Journal says, “malgré la COVID-19”, even though Bixi has been back for awhile.

       

      • j2 16:19 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        Boooooo! These things are such an eyesore.

        I noticed the scooter asphalt paintings and I was wondering if they were repainted or just resilient?

    • Kate 09:00 on 2020-04-28 Permalink | Reply  

      A woman who was defrauded of her money by four very nasty conspirators has received justice – but too late, because she died in 2016.

       

      • JP 22:51 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        As a society, we really need to examine the way we treat the elderly and the protections that are afforded to them.

    • Kate 08:40 on 2020-04-28 Permalink | Reply  

      Margaret Trudeau (shouldn’t she be using a different surname by now?) has been hospitalized because of smoke inhalation from a fire in her apartment building on Docteur-Penfield.

      Update: Justin tweets that he spoke to her and she’ll be OK. Don’t read the replies unless you want a look into the more uncivil side of Canadian society.

       

      • Blork 08:51 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        She’s the meat in a Prime Minister Trudeau sandwich.

      • dwgs 11:19 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        I heard the fire started on the balcony and I wondered if it was another dry planter combustion thing.

        Also, @ Blork Ewwww

      • Kate 11:21 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        dwgs yes, the old “cigarette in the dry peat moss” thing, seems likely.

      • DeWolf 13:13 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

        Most of the nasty Twitter replies seem to be from bots or troll farm workers, given that they come from people with weird numerical usernames and very few followers. The first one that pops up is “Justin, why haven’t you informed all new Canadian citizens that it’s their right to own a firearm” which is a complete non-sequitur, and also funny because there is no legal right in Canada to own a firearm, something the Supreme Court established nearly 30 years ago.

    • Kate 22:26 on 2020-04-27 Permalink | Reply  

      The mother of the two girls stabbed over the weekend has been charged with second-degree murder. She was treated for self-inflicted injuries after the incident.

       

      • Kate 21:07 on 2020-04-27 Permalink | Reply  

        Various virus stories du jour: a centenarian in Lasalle has died of the virus; CTV says half of Canadians polled said their mental health is in decline; a salon owner who opted to work in a CHSLD for the time being has caught corona herself; cyclists are having difficulty maintaining distance.

         

        • Chris 11:08 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

          Projet is so disappointing. Weren’t they supposed to be anti-car pro-cyclist zealots? Here they have the perfect excuse to reallocate some roadways away from automobiles to active transport, and they aren’t doing it.

          We’re queuing for food, people are advocating for invasive tracking, jobs are lost, mental heath is down, savings are wiped out, but our god forbid we give an inch against car culture. We should be following Milan’s example here.

        • DeWolf 13:15 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

          Val Plante keeps hinting on Twitter that big things are in the works. I think they’re being very cautious not to be seen as too eager, given we’re still in lockdown, but as soon as the official de-confinement process begins, expect them to use it as an opportunity to ramp up things like the REV.

        • Ian 18:12 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

          WTF are you guys on about? PM has put up temporary barriers along a bunch of corridors, taking away entire lanes of traffic throughout the Plateau. Not like nearly as many people are driving anyhow…
          PM has been going on and on about this great achievement since they are apparently incapable of doing anything but change street furniture and close parks…

          The thing is, people are getting really resentful of bicyclists doing whatever they feel like (as usual) despite the fact that there are a lot more people out walking around. Those reclaimed spaces are supposed to be for pedestrians, not the usual “I should be allowed to bicycle wherever I feel like” crowd. I’ve seen a lot of people in my neighbourhood, especially older people, that have taken to walking around with 6 foot long sticks to force joggers and bicyclists to stay away from them.

          If you guys really want there to be more sympathy for biking after all this, maybe encourage your bicyclist pals not to be treating the entire world like a bike path for a bit.

        • Chris 19:13 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

          Ian: keyword there: “temporary”. I’m advocating using this opportunity to *permanently* reallocate space away from cars to active transport, tree planting, benches, etc. Now is precisely the time to reduce the size of the road network, while road usage by motorists is currently way down. As usage ramps up, a new equilibrium will be reached. It’s a once in a lifetime opportunity.

          The climate emergency is even worse than the covid emergency, yet people are willing to transform society for the latter but not the former.

        • Ian 20:13 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

          …you do realize the reduced road use is because so many people are at home, and only because of the pandemic, right? They haven’t given up going to work, they are being told to stay home. They will be back out there the second work starts again. Stop being so doctrinaire and consider for a moment what is actually happening to the city.
          For that mattervwe should all be staying home as much as possible. Most bicyclists I see these days are recreational.

        • Chris 22:56 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

          >you do realize the reduced road use is because so many people are at home…

          Of course; what did I say that makes you think otherwise (perhaps I can clarify it)? My point is that reducing the size of the road network would commensurately prevent motorists from returning to their old ways. We have seen for a century now that building roads just results in those roads being filled. Constraining space for cars will force some to switch to public transit, active transit, to move home/work, to work from home, etc.

          >Stop being so doctrinaire

          Consider that it is you being doctrinaire, in your devotion to continued automobile dominance even in the face of all the evidence that they are a major cause of the climate catastrophe.

          >For that mattervwe should all be staying home as much as possible

          Why? To save lives. Reducing cars will save lives too.

        • Ian 07:47 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

          You misunderstand, I am advocating for that space to be reserved for pedestrians, especially as the point right now is physical distancing for people travelling for essential reasons like grocery and pharmacy runs. That is in fact how PM themselves positioned putting up these “safety corridors”.

          It’s rather telling that any time anyone criticizes bicyclists you think it’s pro-car. …to a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

        • Michael Black 07:55 on 2020-04-29 Permalink

          If cyclists are using that space, then it’s like when they ride on the sidewalk, or along space made on the street when construction is blocking the sidewalk.

          Right now it is doubly silly, since there us so much less traffic.

      • Kate 13:38 on 2020-04-27 Permalink | Reply  

        Grade schools and daycares will reopen May 19 in the greater Montreal area. High schools won’t reopen until late August. Parents won’t be penalized if they keep their kids at home, and some parents better be doing that because there’s to be a maximum of 15 kids per classroom.

        Skimmed off Twitter, will add links when I find them.

        Here’s the Gazette on grade schools reopening.

        Update: Some answers to questions from La Presse; teachers want masks in class – this is such an ironic twist on Bill 21 – and teachers in general are ill at ease over the government decision. Education minister Roberge talked a lot about making kids do schoolwork at home.

         

        • Mark Côté 14:14 on 2020-04-27 Permalink

          This is going to put parents in a very difficult position. There will be pressure on parents to send their kids to school even if there are greater risks in some families (parents with health conditions, live-in grandparents, etc.), since they’re going have to decide whether to put family members at risk versus, at best, telling their kids they don’t get to socialize while some of their friends now do, or, at worst, seeing them fall behind their class and struggle later.

          At least we have 3 weeks to see how the situation in Montreal progresses. But I’m not looking forward to making this choice.

        • Kate 14:33 on 2020-04-27 Permalink

          Also, I would think, pressure on some to send their kids to school so they can get back to work themselves. Legault’s supposed to address the question of reopening businesses tomorrow.

        • walkerp 15:04 on 2020-04-27 Permalink

          I just don’t get how this is supposed to work. Is the idea that we can slowly let the virus back into the community until too many people get sick and die and then we shut everything down again? Do they believe they can manage schools in such a way that the virus won’t spread?

        • Mark 15:13 on 2020-04-27 Permalink

          So I’m exactly in the situation that Mark above describes. I have 3 kids (5,7,9) and we take care of my mother who is 83 and has Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, so she is as “at-risk” as it gets. She has her own room with a small kitchen and bathroom so she could be “internally” isolated from us if the kids go back to school. Do the kids go back to school now? September? What will be different then, with no vaccine? It seems too soon to send the kids back now, but they can’t stay in forever.

          My take is to wait a bit until we hopefully have more information about whether or not COVID-19 can be caught more than once. Once we know that by catching this, there is a 96-98% chance of not catching it again, then I don’t mind getting out there and catching this and dealing with the repercussions, including the risk of dying as a healthy 43-year-old.

          But today, April 27, we don’t have any information about catching this twice, or long term repercussions for recovered patients, or how it attacks other parts of the body, etc. We don’t have enough information to make an informed decision and weighing the pros, cons, and risks of our choice.

        • Baru 16:35 on 2020-04-27 Permalink

          I’ve already heard of employers contacting their workers telling them to show up to work as a result of the openings, or else they will consider them to have resigned from their jobs.

          a range of hasty re-openings are going to occur now all over Canada as a result of the business community losing patience and starting to turn the screws.

        • vasi 18:03 on 2020-04-27 Permalink

          A lot of folks are saying “if we don’t do this, then what? do we just stay indoors forever?” But there’s a lot between May and infinity! We could wait until any of:

          We have proof that immunity is a real, lasting thing
          We’ve had a couple of weeks of steadily lower case loads, so we have some leeway in case things go bad
          We have enough testing capacity to test any children or teachers who may have been exposed
          We have enough spare hospital capacity that we’re not at risk of overfilling them
          We’re no longer hearing reports of PPE shortages, so that we don’t risk running out if things get worse
          We have data about the effects of school re-openings on infection rates and educational outcomes, from other countries or provinces that are ahead of us
          We have new treatments that are more effective

          It doesn’t really sound like we’re meeting any particular criteria, we’re just opening cuz we’re tired of being indoors and willing to take risks. And we’ve decided if 1% of Quebec dies, and 15% ends up in hospital or with long-term sequelae, we’re ok with that.

        • GC 19:10 on 2020-04-27 Permalink

          I have a great deal of questions on the practicality/feasibility of maintaining the class sizes under fifteen, but I suppose I should see what is covered in the education minister’s briefing first…

          What I don’t get is why we can’t wait another week or so to make sure the hospitals stay somewhat stable, before pulling the trigger on this. I get that the schools/teachers need a bit of notice, but we can certainly wait a week or so and then still give them two weeks notice. I get that eventually there will be so little of the school year left that there won’t be any point in going back but, beyond that, it seems like he’s manufacturing some sort of artificial deadline here.

        • walkerp 07:12 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

          The May 11 and 19 dates are contingent on the numbers not getting worse. I would not be surprised at all if they get pushed back once again. Possible that the announcement itself was sent out to test the waters of public opinion.
          I think in general I am questioning the lack of emphasis and priority on supporting and improving the medical system. Should we not be finding solutions for mass testing, a system for contact tracing, improving our emergency rooms, radically changing the way we manage our seniors homes? Shouldn’t all that be the focus of our mobilization rather than just trying to gradually get back to normal?

        • Meezly 09:15 on 2020-04-28 Permalink

          It makes absolutely no sense for QC to reopen in mid-May, if you compare with other provinces with way fewer cases and they have more careful measures in place. It’s obvious Legault is under huge pressure from big businesses. I know that teachers’ unions are going to fight this, and I don’t blame them for not wanting to be sent to an ‘at risk’ work environment.

          Below is a POV from a virologist from McGill who has been part of the creation of the new infectious disease centre at the MUHC MI4 and someone who has spent time reading actual scientific papers that come out on COVID.

          By Claire Trottier:

          “Hi all. I’ve had a number of people reach out to me for my thoughts on
          Legault’s announcements that elementary schools will begin opening in
          Montreal on May 19th, and I thought it would make sense to make a public
          post. Like any scientist, I am willing to change my mind after reviewing
          new evidence. These are my thoughts in this moment.

          Will I be sending my kids to school on May 19th? No. First, I have asthma
          and in general I will be more cautious than most. Even without the asthma,
          I wouldn’t send my kids to school. Part of the reason comes from the
          privilege of my life. I live in a pretty big house, I have a yard, my kids
          have devices and toys to keep them occupied, we have plentiful food, and a
          stable and loving home. It’s still hard, Aron and I are both working and
          the kids end up watching a lot of terrible shows on Netflix. If I didn’t
          have access to all these comforts, my calculus might be different, and I
          might send my kids to school.

          The most compelling reasons I have heard for re-opening the schools have
          centered on issues of poverty and inequality. Many kids rely on school
          lunches. Many kids do not live in safe home environments. Many kids may
          have loving homes, but still have home situations that make physical
          distancing extremely difficult. This crisis has revealed deep inequalities
          and have exacerbated them. There is a steep societal cost to physical
          distancing (the list is much longer), and that has to be part of the
          calculation.

          There is also a cost to re-opening. Kids with parents with pre-existing
          conditions. Teachers and school staff with pre-existing conditions, putting
          themselves at risk. People without pre-existing conditions are also getting
          very sick. Evidence of emerging complications for kids who get Covid-19.

          And re-opening in Montreal of all places? Montreal has the highest number
          of cases in the country. We have shifted our testing capacity to prioritize
          the elderly and front-line workers without establishing a path to massively
          increase testing capacity for the general population. We have dismal
          contact tracing. All this means that we are basically flying blind. We do
          not have good data on community transmission right now, because we just
          aren’t doing the testing or the contact tracing, period.

          On top of that, we know that cases are rising in Montreal North and other
          neighborhoods with higher concentrations of more marginalized communities,
          who will likely bear the brunt of any further increased cases of Covid-19
          from schools. But don’t worry, there is plenty of place in our ERs for when
          they or our teachers get sick. I have a really hard time with that
          particular argument.

          On April 14th, the WHO released their updated strategic preparedness plan
          that outlines the key necessary steps to maintain low-to-no community
          transmission. Montreal clearly does not fullfil these criteria, in fact we
          fail dismally. We do NOT have controlled transmission. We do NOT have the
          capacity to test, trace, and isolate all cases. Outbreak rates are HIGH in
          vulnerable settings like old age homes.

          Until we MASSIVELY increase our testing and contact tracing capacity, until
          we have controlled the outbreaks in old age homes, until we have controlled
          transmission in the community, we should not be re-opening schools.

          What we should be doing is ramping up solutions to the very real and
          devastating negative effects of physical distancing for so many people. We
          should be hearing about detailed plans to increase testing and tracing
          capacity. We should not be re-opening schools.

          As always, I am willing to change my mind or adjust my way of thinking. I
          would especially welcome comments from friends in public health,
          microbiology, or immunology.”

      • Kate 09:26 on 2020-04-27 Permalink | Reply  

        The intro deck to Daniel Renaud’s summary of six recent attacks on shuttered bars gives away the story: the incidents might be linked – or might not – “la police n’exclut aucune hypothèse.” Renaud doesn’t know, nor do the police, exactly what’s going on. All anyone can guess is that the pandemic lockdown might be destabilizing the criminal world just as much as the straight-arrow one.

         

        • qatzelok 11:46 on 2020-04-27 Permalink

          If Jeffery Epstein were still around, how could he get our political class to sleep with underaged honey-traps in this climate?

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