Montreal City Weblog

Kate 19:53 on 2020-10-19 Permalink Reply  

• Ian 21:28 on 2020-10-19 Permalink

  As I’ve said before, for a party that claims to be predicated on urban planning, they aren’t very good at it. Regardless of their motivation or long term plans this is exactly the kind of thing they need to keep track of to parade the numbers in support of their ideas. If they don’t know the numbers, what kind of “planning” are they doing, how can i be sustained, how does i fit within other long term goals, etc. ? This is ridiculous.

• steph 07:45 on 2020-10-20 Permalink

  I don’t think their goal has ever been to “remove parking spaces”. Their goals have been to provide better use of the public space. The question is in bad faith.

• Ian 09:35 on 2020-10-20 Permalink

  I think you misunderstand – my point is that if they aren’t even keeping track of something as simple and obvious as parking spaces, what kind of data are they collecting to support their plans? What numbers are informing their decision-making processes?

  You can’t just undertake urban planning on the basis of gut feelings and political instinct, that’s what Drapeau did, and look at the mess he made.

• Chris 10:40 on 2020-10-20 Permalink

  >what kind of data are they collecting to support their plans?

  That cars contribute massively to climate change is well supported by existing data. As is the fact that the convenience of travel by car requires fast, easy, and cheap parking. It’s all been well known for decades. Therefore, reducing car parking availability makes car travel less attractive.

  That said, they absolutely should count how many they’ve removed. Personally, I suspect they have, and are just lying. They’ve maybe decided any damage from lying will be less than the damage from headlines like “Sky is falling! 1000000 parking spots removed!”

• Ian 11:00 on 2020-10-20 Permalink

  That you happen to agree with some of their conclusions is coincidental, and could flip at a moment’s notice – look at PM in NDG, voting to remove the bike path.

  I’m more into accountability than populism.

• Chris 11:06 on 2020-10-20 Permalink

  Ian, you said “What numbers are informing their decision-making processes?” I’m saying, in this specific case of removing car parking, all the data necessary has been available for decades to know that it’s good policy.

  In the general case, I agree that data is needed, or at least preferable, before making policy.

  Populism? You think removing car parking is populist?!

• CE 11:15 on 2020-10-20 Permalink

  It’s possible that the city doesn’t know how much parking there was before. When I was studying urban planning, I had a class where we were all broken up into teams and given segments of downtown where we were supposed to count all the parking spaces. Our prof sent our data to the city, he said they had no idea how many parking spaces (or what kind of spaces) existed downtown. This was about a decade ago so they might have a better grasp on it.

  I agree with Chris though, they likely have some idea and don’t want to disclose it as some media outlets will predictably pounce on it and make a big deal out of “losing parking spaces” which they will then try to connect to struggling business and the “death of downtown” and whatever other doomsday scenario they can come up with.

• Ian 11:58 on 2020-10-20 Permalink

  Luc Rabouin openly campaigned on getting rid of at least 500 paid parking spaces, it’s not that much of a secret.

  Perhaps Hanlon’s Razor is the best answer to the question of whether PM is lying or not – “never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity”

• dwgs 12:07 on 2020-10-20 Permalink

  If the city has no idea how many parking spots they have then how do they set the rates in their contract with Stationnement Montreal? I would think it pretty important to have some accurate accounting of your revenue streams.

• Ian 12:13 on 2020-10-20 Permalink

  A good portion of those parking spaces aren’t metered parking, but stickered residential parking. It was reported that 800 residential parking spaces were removed on Bellechasse alone – though I now wonder where this number came from. I’m sure in neighbourhoods where there is no sticker parking like the Point they probably really don’t keep track of residential parking at all – if this article is any indication.

• Ephraim 13:23 on 2020-10-20 Permalink

  If you don’t have it as part of an accounting system, it’s open for corruption.

  Every parking spot should have a value. If it’s metered and if it isn’t. And everyone should be paying for the spaces that they need. You assign a value to each spot, each hour, etc. You then add to the budget of the STM, the police, etc. All of them, the cost of the spots they CURRENTLY use. And then BILL them for those spots. From then on, everyone pays. If the police want an extra spot… request and pay for it (and the cost of moving the signs). If they don’t need it, they can hand it back to the city (and pay the cost of moving the signs) and then not having to pay for it. This way we have full accountability of all the parking.

• Ian 20:00 on 2020-10-20 Permalink

  …and therein lies the rub. Montreal politics has historically been predicated on laziness and corruption. Knowing that nobody has a clue what the hell is actually going does not instil confidence.

  I completely agree with Ephraim – we need to start actually keeping track of stuff around the city. Our only other option is go around spouting half-baked ideas about poorly interpreted studies from some other place, opening us up to the kind of corrupt misdirection we are all too familiar with.

  To answer your question, Chris –
  “Populism? You think removing car parking is populist?!”
  In the way Projet is doing it? Absolutely. It’s obvious that climate change is real and private car ownership is out of control, but PM cloaks and massages their decisions in so many ways it’s silly – and to now see they don’t even truly measure the results to base future decision-making on, or even to simply use for advocacy… well, that’s pretty disappointingly sophomoric, to say the least. They won’t even admit they are anti-car, and that one of their main platforms is to remove parking. It’s ridiculous. That they are all stick and no carrot but won’t even admit is just pathetic.

• CE 20:09 on 2020-10-20 Permalink

  To clarify, by “parking spaces” I meant all of it: Metered curb, unmetered curb, surface parking lots, parking garages, underground garages, private driveways, backyard spaces, etc. I’m sure Stationnement de Montréal knows exactly how many metered spaces they have.

• Ian 20:17 on 2020-10-20 Permalink

  Agreed. As I said, I’m sure in neighbourhoods where there is no sticker parking like the Point they probably really don’t keep track of residential parking at all – if this article is any indication.

  But as Ephraim pointed out, this is crucial to creating and presenting informed policy.

• Ephraim 20:48 on 2020-10-20 Permalink

  And I’m sure that if they did this, we would see a whole revolution in problem solutions. The police would suddenly need less spaces, the city departments, would need less spaces. The STM might change where bus stops are and how long they are. We would have a real accountability on so many parts of this. And when you asked for a permit to build and had to use parking spots, boy would you minimize the amount of time that you used those spots, if they had a daily cost.

  The other part of this, I want to know how many parking spots are being used by city employees for their personal vehicle and if the city is either charging them for the usage of the parking spot, or sending them the tax documents for the parking spot, because that is Quebec law. A free parking spot is legally a benefit and TAXABLE. So if they aren’t paying for their parking and they aren’t getting tax papers, then we have a case of tax evasion.

• david292 02:22 on 2020-10-21 Permalink

  + 1 on Chris’ first comment especially. They have that data somewhere, but there’s just no incentive now to release.

• david292 02:23 on 2020-10-21 Permalink

  And good. Get rid of the parking spaces. If the data make that more difficult because of the politics of an involuntarily merged city, then suppress the data for now.

• Ian 11:26 on 2020-10-21 Permalink

  Careful what you wish for, autocracy is a two-edged sword.

  Like I said…

  You can’t just undertake urban planning on the basis of gut feelings and political instinct, that’s what Drapeau did, and look at the mess he made.