Montreal City Weblog

Kate 10:03 on 2020-10-22 Permalink Reply  

• jeather 10:12 on 2020-10-22 Permalink

  I’m always curious why we don’t see a discussion from the CNT, which should have something to say about employees not being paid for months.

• jeather 10:13 on 2020-10-22 Permalink

  Though having known people who did this kind of TA/grader/casual work at McGill, taking forever to get on payroll is not a new snafu.

• dwgs 10:19 on 2020-10-22 Permalink

  HR at McGill has always been slow and unresponsive but this new system is absolutely ridiculous.

• Mark Côté 12:47 on 2020-10-22 Permalink

  I’m one of the victims (though teaching is not my day job so the lack of pay isn’t really affecting me). I had no idea the problem was so widespread until I saw that article. Explains (kinda) why my recent emails on the subject to the department chair and associate chair have gone unanswered. I’m virtually certain that the main reason this hasn’t been fixed yet is that they know instructors aren’t going to leave their students in a lurch by quitting suddenly. If this had been any other job I wouldn’t have even considered continuing to work after not receiving any pay for 8 weeks (and counting).

• Joey 13:09 on 2020-10-22 Permalink

  I’m not excusing McGill by any means, but it’s worth noting that educational institutions have lots of employment categories that don’t fit nicely with broad-based HR information systems. It’s not a surprise that the problems are concentrated among TAs, casual lecturers, etc.

  At least it’s not Phoenix-level bad… BTW Kate, I recall a lot of the problems related to Phoenix involved federal workers being overpaid. Worrying about to deal with paying that money back, especailly since nobody had any idea how long it would take to sort out, sucked all the joy that may have come from being accidentally overpaid. Imagine you get overpaid on every paycheque in the last half of the year, but the problem isn’t resovled untilt he middle of the next calendar year. In the meantime, you owe hefty income taxes on money that isn’t yours, and you have no idea when it’s going to be resolved (or how) and to top it off, your employer is also, basically, the taxman.

• jeather 13:36 on 2020-10-22 Permalink

  Ok, so why did you specifically not go to the CNT complaining you hadn’t been paid, given that you’re probably less worried about risking being fired? Not as an aggressive question, just that I don’t understand why this is allowed to go on and why people aren’t complaining.

• Tim S 13:49 on 2020-10-22 Permalink

  I was once overpaid as a grad student. It took me 6 months to convince them to claw back the money, as I was afraid they would discover I owed 10,000$ just before I was set to graduate. At least I got some minuscule interest out of it.
  I think some McGill people are being overpaid, in fact. Sorry it’s not you, Mark.

• Mark Côté 14:14 on 2020-10-22 Permalink

  jeather, not sure if your question was directed to me, but it’s fair so I’ll answer.

  So first, I have been complaining, starting with the admin, then the department associate chair, then the chair, and next will be the dean.

  Second, I literally only just realized yesterday that I can (and should) involve the union. I’ve never actually had a unionized job before in my two-decade-long career because they aren’t, for whatever reason, really a thing in the software world (yet, anyway).

  Third, as I mentioned, the money isn’t actually a big deal for me, so the emails that I’ve sent so far have been more on principle, and in solidarity with anyone who is actually depending on their pay. In fact since it is a contract position I had previously assumed I’d be paid in one or two lump sums; I only found out that I was supposed to be paid every two weeks just before the semester started.

  And finally, this whole teaching thing has been a bit of a gong show from the beginning; not being paid is actually less of a concern for me than the total lack of onboarding of any sort. I was just thrown into this as though there was some sort of implicit assumption that I knew how any of this worked, despite the faculty knowing that I don’t have an academic background. That’s been a lot more stressful for me (again, given that I’m in a privileged position where the money isn’t that important to me).

• jeather 14:20 on 2020-10-22 Permalink

  Yes, I was asking you specifically. Given that the money isn’t a big deal, and that you probably don’t need this job, there would have been less concern about pushback if you brought in the CNT, which regulates things like “how soon after you start do you need to receive your first paycheque” (answer: no more than one month). You still don’t seem to be calling them — your next step is the dean or the union. But surely if you complained about not being paid they would see that it’s a lot of other people, and that also would be solidarity?

• Kate 15:30 on 2020-10-22 Permalink

  Joey (and everyone), I should not have been so lighthearted about people dealing with overpayment. I realize getting more than you’ve earned and having to cope with the consequences isn’t good either.

• Kevin 18:57 on 2020-10-22 Permalink

  A lot of unions are terrible about actually reaching out to new hires.
  I had one job where my boss told me, six months in, that the union reps were upset I had not yet officially joined the union.
  Several complicated conversations ensued.

  At another job I was overpaid for nine months. They clawed back half the overpayment over the next year.

• dwgs 20:11 on 2020-10-22 Permalink

  Speaking as someone who has been a McGill employee for over two decades;
  Tim S please tell me where you saw something about a McGill employee being overpaid, i’ve heard many many stories over the years of people being underpaid or having to wait months for a cheque but never once have I heard of anyone being overpaid.
  The story makes it sound like the many people being hired is an unusual circumstance and that’s why the system had problems. Please remember that the university usually hires this many people and more every single August. If anything there may be fewer people this year because pandemic.
  When I was hired the standard practice was that they would keep you as a casual for a full year because that is what was the maximum time allowed before you became permanent and had the right to join a union. That way the uni saved money on your pay, had one less union member to deal with, and you accrued one less year on your seniority which affects retirement, pay scale, pension, benefits, vacation time, etc.
  If, as it says in the story, other schools had already experienced significant ongoing problems with Workday perhaps administration might have considered a different system.
  The admin person in my department, who is an absolute rock, super efficient responsible person and largely responsible for our place functioning smoothly, has been stressed over this like I haven’t seen them stressed in the 20 years I have known them. Morale is at an all time low.

• Tim S. 20:48 on 2020-10-22 Permalink

  dwgs: sorry, personal anecdote that I absolutely don’t have permission to explain in detail here. But I suspect related to the current situation. Perhaps not typical.

• Nicole 23:19 on 2020-10-22 Permalink

  Also: a lot of the new hires who didn’t get paid are graduate students and postdocs in financially precarious positions. Bad choice of system, bad timing, and bad implementation

• Mark Côté 09:32 on 2020-10-23 Permalink

  “But surely if you complained about not being paid they would see that it’s a lot of other people”

  Pretty sure that’s clear now from the fact that it’s made the news. And yes, I have a lot of clout since I could just walk away, meaning the administration should be more motivated to fix my situation than someone who can’t, yet that is probably not the right approach either.

  I’m actually not sure I am technically in the union; I had to fill out some piece of paper related to unions, but dwgs seems to be saying that I wouldn’t be in the union. But no one explained anything to me so I’m pretty clueless.

• dwgs 09:39 on 2020-10-23 Permalink

  @Mark, there are a couple of recently formed unions for course lecturers and the like, it would probably be one of those but I’m not very familiar with how their membership works since it would likely be more transitory due to the impermanent nature of the position. My example was for support staff (MUNACA, the trades, etc).

• Mark Côté 10:10 on 2020-10-23 Permalink

  I signed something that was labelled a union form, but there is no actual mention of the union in question (it was basically just a personal information form).

  I was told the reason I wasn’t paid is that my contract was accidentally entered as $0. Apparently fixing this is incredibly complicated.

  As for Workday, it is far from the best software out there (usability does not seem to be a priority in HR apps), but it is very common. Both my current and previous employers use it.