REM to be extended north and east
An announcement Monday afternoon by the premier says the REM will be extended within Montreal to Pointe-aux-Trembles. A part of the lede has been buried here: some of the downtown REM is to be an elevated train.
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Kate
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steph 16:31 on 2020-12-14 Permalink
Are they going to use MAGIC to fit another branch through the past capacity TMR tunnel? just HOW and what is their plan????
The tracks from Bonaventure, through Griffintown, then through the Technopark to nuns island is elevated – they’ve been assembling it for months now. The tunnel from the station to Canora is underground – or did this change?
Jonathan 17:03 on 2020-12-14 Permalink
I read somewhere else that it would go via Rene Levesque and Notre Dame. I’d have to look hard at a map to imagine how that would be possible
Uatu 17:30 on 2020-12-14 Permalink
Can you see how well it works first then maybe make expansion plans after?
ant6n 18:33 on 2020-12-14 Permalink
haha
Max 20:33 on 2020-12-14 Permalink
That article raises way more questions than it answers. Hopefully much clarification will be forthcoming tomorrow.
But yeah, what Uatu said. Financing for the airport station is up in the air, we haven’t committed to servicing Dorval intermodal yet, and already we’re heading off in another direction? What in the actual?
Faiz imam 20:40 on 2020-12-14 Permalink
Just to be clear, the new line is completely and totally independent from the current REM. It has nothing to do with the Mount-royal tunnel or any of the debates around the current system. No sharing or track or direct connections.
It is an elevated line that begins near Gare centrale (I am very interested to see where the exact station will be). It will be elevated all the way to pointe au tremble.
Also there will be a fork near Viau going north to Cegep Marie Victorin. Mostly elevated, with a underground section in the middle.
Here is a plan someone made months ago based on some leaked data:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1gZZrtFnKakPBT92gpkthcjmgg_uXbBbO&ll=45.57456817606254%2C-73.5664780737757&z=11
Calling my shot: They will demolish the terrible parking garage in front of the Gare and build a new station on it, with the line coming behind the Queen E via Belmont.
Max 21:21 on 2020-12-14 Permalink
Thanks, Faiz. This seems to be an implementation of the Pink Line then, but above-ground. Makes sense at first glance, finance-wise.
The Gazoo is calling for a Rene-Levesque approach to town:
https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/montreals-rem-commuter-rail-system-to-be-extended-north-and-east-reports-say
That seems a plausible guess to me. Columns galore could be planted on both R-L and Notre-Dame Est for kms on end without disrupting traffic very much.
I’m as curious as you are about how the tie-in with the McGill or Gare Centrale stations might come about.
Faiz imam 21:49 on 2020-12-14 Permalink
Whatever it is, a lot of people are going to hate it.
I personally thing RL is wide enough to have the line and not be overwhelmed to much. Comparisons to Chicago or NYC’s overhead lines is misplaced.
But also, I think the view coming into downtown in RL 10m in the air will be super cool.
Kevin 23:51 on 2020-12-14 Permalink
I’m calling it now: if this goes along René Levesque, within five years someone will demand the street be renamed because it’s gonna be ugly.
ant6n 05:27 on 2020-12-15 Permalink
It´s nice that they want to build more transit capacity and all. But…
It´s more privatization of our metro system and more silly, piece-meal, suburban-centric planning between a prime minister and a pension fund. With this new plan, the “original” REM may have been planned somewhat differently. Anyway, a project like this should be centered around an East-West downtown tunnel connecting the CP Commuter rail ine line around Guy and somewhere East of downtown downtown. Along Rene-Levesque. That would mean an expensive downtown connection, but something that can actually take on multiple branches later on, including going West. Also, it could have a lot of utility besides suburban-downtown connections. And still, it would only be a couple of km.
The plan Faiz posted looks similar to some plans that have existed way back when, going along/near Notre-Dame. It allows cheap construction and going pretty far quickly, but it bypasses a lot of populated areas along the way.
Phil M 05:35 on 2020-12-15 Permalink
ant6n, it appears that going through unpopulated areas is the whole point, as they will likely be the focus of redevelopment plans for the Caisse, according to Radio-Canada (who also provide a helpful map, unlike every other media outlet who don’t believe in useful graphics, apparently…):
“Ce tracé permettrait notamment de connecter au centre-ville le futur système rapide par bus (SRB Pie IX) et de désenclaver l’est de Montréal, dont plusieurs friches industrielles doivent faire l’objet d’un redéveloppement dans les années futures.”
https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1756991/rem-2023-est-nord-montreal-extension
ant6n 07:13 on 2020-12-15 Permalink
“it appears that going through unpopulated areas is the whole point,” …. le sigh. Ever since the CDPQ is planning out transit for the sake of making money and election strategies of the PM, basic transit planning concepts have been turned upside down.
dhomas 07:49 on 2020-12-15 Permalink
I’m with ant6n on this. “Going through unpopulated areas” might be the point for the CDPQ, but it is not the point of public transit! The CDPQ is using this project for their own ends, specifically, to generate income for their real estate divisions.
Uatu 11:22 on 2020-12-15 Permalink
It’s like the Disney monorail. Just a way to get to different condo devs. Who cares if it actually makes any transit sense as long as people can get from Tomorrow Land to the Polynesian Village in record time
su 13:01 on 2020-12-15 Permalink
Couldn’t the Honore Beaugrand line be extended further East?
Lots of unexplained infrastructural redundancy going on here. I guess things will be clarified during the upcoming public consultation events?
dwgs 13:15 on 2020-12-15 Permalink
All that land the city is expropriating in PAT just increased in value. It looks to be about the distance of one more stop of the proposed terminus.
Daniel D 13:34 on 2020-12-15 Permalink
Assuming the leaked map Faiz posted is still accurate (I’m sure it is), as others have pointed out already, there could be several motivations for choosing the route along the river rather than the diagonal Pink Line route via the Plateau and Rosemont:
• Going through less populated areas provides real-estate development opportunity. Going through the populated areas of the Plateau and Rosemont wouldn’t provide such opportunities for profit.
• Elevated rail wouldn’t be feasible going through the heart of Rosemont, which is pretty dense. It’s not clear to me how they would be able to implement an elevated route without demolishing lots of houses or just ruining the area in general.
• Tunnelling would make the most sense for the original Pink Line route. But it would be expensive and it’s clear the CDPQ want to do this on the cheap to maximise profit.
• There is (I think?) existing rail infrastructure along the river which could be expropriated for the route.
• Speculation: There could be a political element. The areas the Plateau and Rosemont the Pink Line was planned for are Projet / QS strongholds. The areas this new route will serve I believe voted for the CAQ in the last election.
Either way, it’s frustrating there’s no motivation to improve transit in the already populated parts of the city. Let’s be honest, much of this route parallels the Green Line as well. I’m all for transit orientated development, but let’s ensure the densest neighbourhoods of the city where people already live are properly served first.
Phil M 15:46 on 2020-12-15 Permalink
This link was posted by Kate today, and shows the proposed new route, and also outlines that the it is intentionally a “if you build it, they will come” plan to revitalize the east of the island, which, naturally, is a CAQ stronghold at the moment.
https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/grand-montreal/2020-12-15/rem/un-train-toutes-les-deux-minutes-pour-le-nord-et-l-est-de-montreal.php
That being said, and I can’t believe I agree with him, but Legault has a point that there’s a lot of unused, post-industrial land, some with nice views of the river, that would benefit from catalyst of a new public transport project through the area, which has the added benefit of being ON the island, so a new bridge or tunnel isn’t needed. It’s also a lot easier to build a track along a highway, or use existing infrastructure, than digging diagonally across the island, under the famed Plateau, and meeting political and nimby resistance at every turn.
Obviously, there’s the question of who benefits, but it’s always the people in power, so that’s not a surprise. And if it wasn’t private money developing the project, it would be left to languish for another thirty years.
Is it the best proposal? No. Is it the only one that will actually happen? Looks like. Is something better than nothing? We’ll have to wait and see.
ant6n 18:08 on 2020-12-15 Permalink
Well, I don´t mind too much that they´re going along the Notre-Dame corridor to build a line. But the whole thing doesn`t have much system thinking yet again. This is not a pink line, but it will prevent a pink line, and has a fraction of utility of it. So I guess it`s nice to have that fraction of utility, but the whole story is kind of sad again – given how much money and clout is behind the project, we´ll again have project that has as it`s primary objectives what is perhaps on #4 (develop on-island brownfields), #12 (rapid transit to Pointe-Aux-Tremblex, #999 (goodies for CAQ) on Montreal’s list of transit needs.
DeWolf 18:38 on 2020-12-15 Permalink
Beyond what everyone has already said, I’m concerned that these new lines would only have 40-metre trains and platforms, half the length of the REM lines currently under construction. This mirrors what happened in Vancouver where the Canada Line was built with 40m platforms that can’t be expanded. It is already nearing its maximum capacity just 10 years after opening.