City noise: whose fault?
It feels typical of the Journal in this story to blame the city: a young man buys a condo on rue Pauline-Julien, near the tracks that separate the borough from Rosemont. He’s complaining here about the noise from a city yard: “Nobody explained to him that he’d have to try to sleep next to a yard where city trucks come and go at all hours.”
There’s been a city yard in that location since time out of mind. There have to be depots for the city’s many working vehicles, and one of them is the environs of the old Rosemont incinerator.
The young man bought the condo without checking out the area or, I presume, talking to anyone already living in the building. The noise is nothing new – there will be trains as well, occasionally, so is he going to complain to CP?
My ruling: Not the city’s fault. Not a news story at all. It’s a hot condo market – tell the guy to move. If you want the silence of the suburbs, don’t move to the city.
dwgs 10:01 on 2021-03-16 Permalink
What are the odds that he bought that condo because it came at a better price than comparable ones in another location?
Kate 10:05 on 2021-03-16 Permalink
Right, and he didn’t investigate why he was getting such a good deal.
Blork 10:12 on 2021-03-16 Permalink
I doubt it was significantly cheaper than nearby condos. I’m familiar with that area (had several friends living along there) and they’re not cheap — or at least not cheapER.
Regarding noise, I had friends living less than 200 metres from that spot (east on Pauline-Julien, then a few doors south) and they never reported any noise problems. But more importantly, how could the guy go there, look out the window and see that gigantic structure and all that activity, and not ask questions?
At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old man, I think we’re seeing the result of children who were coddled by helicopter parents who never let them fail, never let them take risks, and never gave them a reason to think for themselves, etc. So dude is now 30 and he’s working at the maturity level of a 15-year-old because he’s always had his parents there to think for him. (OK, that’s pure speculation in this case, and of course not all youngish people were brought up like that, but many, many were; it was an epidemic in the 90s and early noughts!)
steph 10:12 on 2021-03-16 Permalink
He’s 100% responsible for not doing his due diligence, but I’ll cut him a bit of slack that the current market makes it difficult to properly vet a purchase.
The purchase process is insane. Places are listed for sale in the early week, If you’re quick you get 15 min visit on the weekend (they’ll do 50 showings in 2 days) Offers are due by Monday. Everything is getting 10+ offers, and selling prices are randomly near 100K above the asking. It’s just insane lately, the only advice a realtor can give is “offer the most you can afford”. You lose a half dozen offers and you realize there’s no deals to be found. It’s an exhaustive process, every week rinse and repeat.
“young man” = first time buyer. The realtors push the fear of missing out pretty hard. yet the reality is that at the current upswing in the market, first time buyers might never afford anything (like in Toronto or Vancouver)
Blork 10:28 on 2021-03-16 Permalink
That’s actually a good point, Steph. Things are insane right now in the real estate market, and it can be hard to do your due diligence. But still it’s on him.
But here’s a question: is he the only one complaining? There are dozens of condos along that stretch. Ones on the the first two levels are somewhat protected by a sound barrier that runs along the tracks. If you’re on the top floor you’re more exposed, but there are dozens of condos in that position.
From my estimation, this guy’s condo is about 120 metres from the middle of the incinerator (where the trucks drive up). And there is an on-site one storey building plus the raised railbed and then the sound barrier between there and his condo. On the other side, you have a condo building at rue des Carrieres and Henri-Julien that is only 80 metres away and has no sound barriers between it and the old incinerator. Are those people complaining?
Some people are oblivious to noise, so that’s just fine for them. Others are not (me included), so if you’re NOT oblivious to noise you really need to double-down on your due diligence (4D for short!), especially if you look out the window and see that huge city yard sitting right there!
Ephraim 10:36 on 2021-03-16 Permalink
There is a law requiring disclosure of anything that’s unusual. They should therefore have told him about the noise. The agent might have some fault if they didn’t disclose.
Blork 10:47 on 2021-03-16 Permalink
Does that count even if the unusual thing is REALLY OBVIOUS? Do coastal real estate agents need to disclose that there’s an ocean nearby? Do urban real estate agents need to disclose there’s a falling hazard from a condo on the 30th floor?
steph 10:55 on 2021-03-16 Permalink
I can hear the realtor saying : “There’s no market comparables for this condo since we’re on a steep inflation in the prices. The noise issue is worth 0$ to the other bidders, so if you really want this one bid your max, TO make sure you get it we should also offer ‘no inspection, no legal warranty and your first born child”.
Blork 12:09 on 2021-03-16 Permalink
Regarding whether or not this is news, I’d say it is, if only because so many younger people have not had the benefit of risk-taking and learning from real life experience, so stories like this are essentially a way of crowd-sourcing your mistakes so others can learn from them.
Kevin 12:16 on 2021-03-16 Permalink
The guy’s got white hair in his beard: he doesn’t qualify as a young man.
2020 saw an explosion of homes on the market as 3-4 months of pent-up demand from people with qualifications for mortgages combined with lockdown created a generational shift in where people wanted to live.
But since mid-2020 we are in a seller’s market and 2021 started with *fewer properties than ever before* being put on the market nationally. That’s increased since in Toronto, BC, and Calgary, but *not in Montreal*. The Cdn Real Estate Assn. says Montreal has fewer properties for sale than anywhere else.
Unless a lot of new property comes on the market soon (and I don’t suspect it will, because a lot of development recently has been in 1 or 2 br condos) this is not the year to buy a home in Montreal. You will get screwed.
GC 12:41 on 2021-03-16 Permalink
Yep, the take home message here is “research a neighbourhood before buying in it”. Like, steph, however I will cut him a tiny bit of slack. With the curfew, who couldn’t easily go by and see how noisy it was at night. (Assuming he closed on it after the curfew went into place…) Beyond that, it’s like moving in next to St-Viateur and complaining about the smell of bagels.
ant6n 13:20 on 2021-03-16 Permalink
Even without cutting the guy any slack, making a bunch of ageist generalizations isn´t necessary (young people can´t think for themselves, are as immature as people half their age etc.)
Blork 14:30 on 2021-03-16 Permalink
Agreed, although I doubt the curfew was an issue. The article says he’s been in there for “a few months” which means he moved in in January or possibly earlier. And that generally means he would have closed on it in December or November (or even earlier), long before the curfew.
GC 14:55 on 2021-03-16 Permalink
There we have it, then, Blork :). I actually looked at a place in that same complex, when I was condo shopping. I decided those giant smoke stacks were not the first thing I wanted to see every morning, so I never even thought about the noise. (This was back in the Before Times, when I actually used to leave home most mornings…) I mention this as a way of confirming that there is no way a person with average eyesight could possibly miss that eco centre. It is not just prominent in that photo. It can NOT be missed on site.
I have a friend who does live there and he’s never complained about the noise. Of course, everyone has different tolerance levels… And some locations in the complex might be worse than others. I’m sure the traffic noise around my place would drive some nuts.
mare 15:30 on 2021-03-16 Permalink
Hah, and he hasn’t even had the pleasure of having his windows open all day and smelling the stench of barley malting from the large brewery next door. On windless days in the summer it can hang around quite a while.