Restos want to open for the vaccinated
Two restaurant owner groups want permission to reopen for the vaccinated. The problem is: how does anyone know you’ve been vaccinated? And what about the many people (like myself) who’ve had one shot, but won’t see the second for months yet?
Joey 09:11 on 2021-04-30 Permalink
A digital vaccine passport of some kind seems inevitable – in the meantime you can show the vaccination card you received. I would be comfortable eating in a restaurant of everyone inside has received one dose.
Kate 09:18 on 2021-04-30 Permalink
I didn’t get a card, just a scribbled bit of paper with the date of my second shot on it.
Mark 09:21 on 2021-04-30 Permalink
Kate, it’s normal that you didn’t get more than a scribbled paper after the first shot. I have staff in Nunavut who have gotten the second shot and it’s more of an official paper. So you could use that paper. Some countries (Estonia) have gone the tech route with this, giving you a QR code (like an e-ticket) and you use your phone, sort of like when you board a train or go to the Bell Center. It could be a combination of both.
There are plenty of issues to consider here, other than the obvious one of civil liberties: fraud, privacy, unequal access to vaccines, duration of protection. How about data standards? Not everyone got the same vaccine, so is it up to the business to decide who to let in? Scene: It says here your AstraZeneca vaccine is 9 months old, you may not enter. Your friend here has a Pfizer vaccine that 6 months old, he may enter. It gets messy.
But the cost of figuring that out is orders of magnitude lower than keeping the whole economy closed, so governments are working on this. We’ll see.
Daniel 09:33 on 2021-04-30 Permalink
There might be something to the approach of dangling a carrot to reward vaccination, but it might be better to save whatever incentive for after the second dose. We’re going to have enough trouble making sure everyone who had the first shot gets the second. We’ll need all the help we can get.
Ephraim 10:41 on 2021-04-30 Permalink
We definitely got a card, with the batch number. We also walked in with our vaccination booklet, because we need to keep track. Tetanus is still every 10 years. When you take Hep A and Hep B, they are 2 or 3 shots. It helps to keep it in order.
Bill Binns 11:10 on 2021-04-30 Permalink
Couldn’t it be something as simple as one of those non-removable (without cutting) bracelets that every patient receives in the hospital with a QR code. Maybe yellow for your first shot and green for your second?
Joey 11:20 on 2021-04-30 Permalink
The vaccination card is an interim solution. Implementing a digital passport via the provincial Carnet Santé seems the easiest medium-term route. My guess is that two months from now we won’t need this as vaccination rates soar and new cases/deaths plummet.
steph 11:34 on 2021-04-30 Permalink
I don’t want to eat in a restaurant with people who haven’t had their measles, mumps, rubella, or chickenpox, vaccine either. Maybe we can get people to wear an armband as an idicator. Lets also do cavity searches at street corners.
Kate 13:23 on 2021-04-30 Permalink
steph, the thing is, we’ve all acquired immunity to those things either because of vaccination or earlier exposure, and it’s a fair guess we do have herd immunity to all or most of them. They don’t pack the punch of an entirely new virus.
Ephraim 14:11 on 2021-04-30 Permalink
@Kate – Measles is the BIG guy. The vaccine is 97% effective. but measles is so contagious that one person will infect 90% of the people who aren’t vaccinated around them. It stays LIVE in the air for 2 hours. And it still spreads from 4 days before the rash appears to 4 days after it’s gone. In fact, if a person with measles walks through a room with 100 immunized people, at least 2 will likely get measles. Rubella’s vaccine is just 88% effective. And the first treatment for exposure to measles? Revaccination… reteach the body to fight it, faster. Death is 1 to 2 per 1000 from measles.
Incidentally, vaccines are more effective on children than adults. Which is why it is stressed to get them as children.
Kate 14:28 on 2021-04-30 Permalink
Ephraim, I don’t doubt it, but how many people do you know have actually had measles, as adults?
I had measles, as a kid. A guy I know also had it as a kid, and has been deaf on one side ever since, so I know it can have consequences. But when I finally got a GP assigned to me I asked a bit about immunizations, and they said they don’t give MMR to adults, as the assumption is either we had them, or we were at least exposed to them enough that our immune systems know what they are.
(They did give me a Tdap shot because I couldn’t recall when I last had a tetanus shot, and told me to consider getting the shingles vaccine, but it costs like $150.)
Daisy 14:39 on 2021-04-30 Permalink
I had measles as an adult, following a trip to France, despite having been vaccinated as a child (only one dose though).
Kate 15:19 on 2021-04-30 Permalink
Wow. How was it, Daisy? I can barely remember measles, I was about 5, and my parents later said I was quite sick and feverish for some days.
Daisy 15:35 on 2021-04-30 Permalink
At first I thought I was just overtired from too much training for an upcoming race, but when I got swollen lymph nodes and some other symptoms, I googled and got suspicious. This was before the rash appeared. I phoned Info-Santé, the nurse said she would warn the hospital I was coming. They checked me out, confirmed measles and sent me home with some masks in case I had to go out.
Eventually I was itchy and extremely tired and spent all day lying under the ceiling fan in my non-airconditioned apartment in the heat of summer. Public Health phoned frequently to follow up. They also put up a warning notice at my workplace entrance that an infectious person had been there. (I had also been taking the metro back and forth, but I guess it’s harder to warn the right people.)
One day I stood up for 15 minutes or so while talking on the phone (I knew I didn’t feel good but I couldn’t even sum up the energy to tell the person I needed to go lie down) and ended up passing out. When I told Public Health about this, they sent an ambulance. They said measles could have severe complications for adults and I needed to take some tests or something. The paramedics were all wrapped up as if I was radioactive. I was taken extremely directly into a separate room in the ER. Nurses entering had to put on protective gear and then throw it out when they left. I was feeling pretty out of it and I don’t actually know what they were testing or monitoring for, but after a number of hours they sent me home. Because I was infectious and car-less I had to walk home (15 minutes) but at least I had someone to accompany me. Fortunately they gave me some anti-itch pills and the next week or so was easier. Even after I felt just fine I wasn’t allowed back to work. I had to stay at home for a full 14 days.
Kate 16:40 on 2021-04-30 Permalink
Thanks for the vivid descriptions, Daisy! I didn’t realize measles also itches. Chickenpox does, and I remember that well. I hope you recovered with no side effects.
Ephraim 17:01 on 2021-04-30 Permalink
@Kate – I actually asked about MMR and they vaccinated me, but they CAN charge you… it’s $5… $5 for peace of mind… yup, I’m in. In fact, anyone born in the 1960s might want to ask if they were vaccinated, because it wasn’t standard at the time. If you were born in the 60s, you were definitely vaccinated for Smallpox and Polio. Diphtheria, Tetanus and Pertussis are given together and are repeated every 10 years. They tested you for TB (which is easy to remember, because it was a set of 4 dots on the skin). But Measles, Mumps and Rubella were added towards the end of the 60s and only became standard in the 70s. So some people didn’t get them. No shame in asking for them… especially if you are going to travel. Hep A&B are suggested for travel to third world countries, but in some places, you are required for certain service jobs, including people working in restaurants and sexually active people. In fact, when we went to Africa, they strongly suggested a booster for Polio… though it’s finally eradicated in Africa, it’s still a concern in Pakistan and Afghanistan (in case someone is planning on going).
Measles was almost eradicated. WHO actually declared it eradicated in Canada the US… until the antivaxxers. They brought it back! Now we have outbreaks.
There is a good news. Just before COVID, they were already close on the first vaccine for Malaria with a 75% efficacy. And the technology used by Biontech (the tech is owned by Biontech, Pfizer is trying to develop their own) and Moderna means that we are closer than ever to other vaccines, and in particular a vaccine for HIV. The closer we come to eradicating. The biggest vaccines missing are Malaria and HIV. And more coverage for pneumonia. BTW, some countries vaccinate for TB, but if you are vaccinated for TB, you show up positive for TB in tests and then have to do chest X-rays to prove that you don’t have TB. Ask anyone who’s immigrated from Iran, for example.
Ephraim 17:05 on 2021-04-30 Permalink
Hep A & B vaccinations for adults are paid… with some groups getting it free… ask and they will tell you the groups. It’s a course of 3 shots over time.
Kate 11:21 on 2021-05-01 Permalink
Ephraim, I’ve gathered that, had Covid not been such a big story, the news of a malaria vaccine would’ve made much more of a splash.