François Cardinal has a hot potato question: Is Kent Hughes québécois? He digs into how the question has been asked (or avoided) since Hughes – born in Beaconsfield – was hired as Canadiens GM, and how his own editorial board edges around the wider issue. Why is Leonard Cohen always a “poète montréalais”? Do most of us understand “québécois” to mean a person of mostly French ancestry and expression?
Cardinal also pins Lise Ravary down for accusing the Habs of hiring an anglophone, and of wishing they had chosen someone with a French name, even though Hughes was born here and speaks French. But that’s not enough.
It’s a good question and has no simple answer. I don’t think I would be described as québécoise, for example. Not only was I born here, I have four great-grandparents buried on the mountain. But I grew up in an anglo household, so there it is. It’s not enough.
Are you québécois? Why or why not?
I find myself curious: if you know people who’ve come here more recently from France, do their kids think they’re québécois?
Update to add: Urbania has a piece on anglos who don’t speak French, or as it delicately puts it, une petite tournée chez les « têtes carrées ».
Nick D 12:15 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
I think about this with respect to my kids. I was born and grew up mostly in Calgary, and my partner grew up in Halifax. Both our kids (9 and 7) were born here and I wonder how they will identify as they get older. Maybe not as “Québécois” but as “Quebecers” or “Montrealers” ? Unless we leave, which the CAQ is (and this is likely the point) getting me to seriously consider in a way I have not before.
steph 12:17 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
Montrealers are NOT québécois. It’s time we seperate from this province. The natural final outcome of the Monteal people’s collective adventure and development is the achievement of political independence, which is only possible if Montreal becomes a sovereign state and if its inhabitants not only govern themselves through independent democratic political institutions, but are also free to establish external relations and make plans without the provincial government of Quebec being involved.
please just copy/paste any seperate idealogy, but find/replace all Quebec to Montreal. and all Canada to Quebec. the hypocracy is baffling.
Kevin 12:23 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
Last year in La Presse I read a profile of a person where they were described as someone who may have had a Quebecois name but they were actually an anglophone who spoke good French.
Kate 12:39 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
The daughter of a friend was born here. She went to school in French from day one and spoke French fluently, but has an anglo name. Came home one day crying because classmates had told her she wasn’t québécoise. (Her mom was born in England, her father in the Maritimes.) Not making this up, just adding a data point.
Chris 13:05 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
If you’re a white person born in China, speak only that language, know only that culture, are you Chinese?
Kate 13:10 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
Yes, Chris, it’s complex. What about the Mitch McConnell thing last week, where he clearly didn’t consider African‑Americans “Americans”?
Chris 13:23 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
Yes, Kate, it’s complex. We primates like dividing ourselves into groups, and we don’t do it super scientifically. The concepts of “any person born in Quebec” vs “person of the dominant culture/ethnicity in Quebec” are fighting for the same word, but they are two different (but overlapping) concepts. If we were robots, we could just call one group836463 and the other group726283, but our language doesn’t work that way.
As much I dislike that turtle-man, I think it’s a stretch that he didn’t mean it with “overall” implied. Especially since he’s correct that the voting rates of blacks are the same as people with less melanin.
Kate 14:24 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
McConnell’s technical correctness about voting rates is beside the point. His wording revealed his belief about who is really a full, non-hyphenated American.
dhomas 15:08 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
I am born in Quebec, to immigrant parents. I went to French grade school, French immersion high school, and English post-secondary school. I speak French like a “québécois de souche”. My written French is better than most Québécois. In the past, people have thought I was Québécois. Until they hear my (Italian) last name. Then, I’m part of the “vous autres”. “Vous autres, les Italiens, vous vous mariez. Vous autres, les immigrants, vous travaillez fort, mais vous prenez les jobs au québécois. Vous autres, les anglophones, vous détruisez le Québec.”
I don’t identify as Québécois because Québécois don’t identify with me.
Poutine Pundit 15:28 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
“Est Québecois qui veut l’être,” said Jacques Parizeau. I disagree with many things he said, and who knows if he really believed it, but the statement strikes me as correct.
It’s up to you to define yourself, not let yourself be defined by others. I don’t correspond to a purist’s definition of Quebecois, but screw the purists–we shouldn’t let them define who we are or exclude us from building the pluralist and inclusive Quebec we want.
Chris 15:54 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
Kate, I’m not so sure it does. Everyone is a hyphenated American, including White-Americans. They have a wikipedia article even. If one wants to refer to a subgroup, one uses a hypenated form. When one refers to “Americans” without any hyphen, then one is generally referring to all of them. It could be he meant it in a exclusionary way, but it’s very possible he didn’t. But hey, the slightest piece of wording these days will get blown into some kind of smoking gun proof of a partisan’s worldview and looped ad nauseum on cable news, that’s how it is now. No doubt MSNBC is playing the clip constantly today.
Uatu 16:03 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
Well everyone can ponder this important question while they’re in the hospital waiting for the one real de souche Dr./nurse/ PAB to finally attend to them because any new immigrants are immediately discouraged by all this bullshit and just bypass QC for the ROC.
Blork 16:37 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
McConnell’s gaff is a classic Freudian slip. I have little doubt that he mean to say “white Americans” but the fact that he didn’t shows that deep down he likely thinks of “Americans” as being white, and all non-white Americans as being hyphenated (or to put it another way, “qualified”) Americans.
John B 17:09 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
I moved here by choice, but this kind of thing is super discouraging. It makes me feel like I’ll never really be accepted in Quebec, so why bother trying? The same columnists complain that “les immigrants” don’t speak French well enough. Well, knowing that we’ll never be truly accepted sure is demotivating.
I grew up in BC, where Ujjal Dosanjh was the premier when I was university age. Could that ever happen here? Until it can, Quebec has a problem. If I wanted to get into politics I would be limited by my anglo name and “born outside of Quebec” status.
Parizeau’s “Est Québecois qui veut l’être” should be the answer, (well, that plus living in Quebec for long enough to legally vote), but it’s not the case. While pundits in Quebec fight over if a guy born here is Quebecois, places like Calgary are electing mayors like Naheed Nenshi and Jyoti Gondek because they care where you make your home, not where your ancestors are from.
steph 17:32 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
We all have that friend who’s ‘too english to be a francophone’ and ‘too french to be a’n anglophone’. It’s a futile persuit – unless we can simply realize it’s just a common bilingual Montrealer’ thing…
Ian 18:53 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
I came here on purpose over 30 years ago, but my girls were born here, went to French garderies, French schools, and have passably French names. Nonetheless, we wouldn’t be considered “From” here in a way that, say, someone who moves from Sauguenay to Montreal can still call themselves “from” here.
“…when thousands of flag-waving nationalists march through the street roaring ‘Le Québec Aux Québécois’ they do not have in mind anybody named Ginsburg. Or MacGregor, come to think of it”
Mordecai Richler, 1992
Even progressive Quebec nationalists know in their hearts it’s not about geography or even language but about ethnicity.
“…Quebec’s ostensibly pro-diversity Québec solidaire, which has some progressive anglophone support, shrugged off questions last week on dwindling rural anglophone populations. Regurgitating a version of the classic “best treated minority in the world” line cherished for decades among old school nationalists downplaying anglophone angst, QS spokesperson Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois said linguistic minorities generally receive exceptional treatment. And, apropos of nothing, that he is for strengthening the French language in Montreal.”
https://montrealgazette.com/opinion/columnists/dan-delmar-memo-to-anglo-progressives-even-friendly-nationalism-excludes
The thing here is that we all know that the French-speaking Québecois are also a minority in Canada, even more of a minority than anglophones in Quebec especially considering how they have cut themselves off from all the other historically francophone regions of Canada like Manitoba, New Brunswick or Northern Ontario, and one could conceivably argue that the French Québecois might even be the actual best treated minority in the world – but of course that would be considered offensive because in multicultural societies how well minorities are treated isn’t a race to the bottom.
As long as Quebec’s culture is based on suppressing multiculturalism based on historically situated trauma Olympics, we’re never going to be able to wrap our heads around the fact that two European empires colonized Canada and the more dominant one was at the time English but now has really nothing to do with British culture any more than the mythology of Francophone Quebec has much to do with what France is like now. I think the thing that probably bothers Quebec nationailsts more than anything is the sneaking suspicion that they in fact have more in common with Canadian anglophones than they do with any French speaking countries in the world let alone Francophones in the ROC.
dhomas 19:23 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
Re: “Est Québecois qui veut l’être,” j’ai vraiment essayé de l’être. Mais ça vient avec des bémols. Le “veut” dans cette phrase est vraiment conditionnel. Si tu veux être Québécois, tu ne peux être QUE Québécois. Il faut complètement oublier toute autre culture. Je ne peux pas être à la fois Québécois ET Italien. C’est tout ou rien.
Et quand je dis à quelqu’un qui me demande “tu viens d’où?” et que je réponds “je suis Québécois, né au Québec”, la question suivante est toujours “oui, mais de où, originalement?”. Même si je veux être Québécois, je ne serai jamais Québécois, d’après les “vrais” Québécois. I’ve made my peace with it. Je suis montréalais bilinguophone.
Kevin 20:04 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
The hypothetical posed by Chris is, in reality, one of many problems in China.
There are 55 official ethnic groups in China, and the government is currently commiting genocide against the third or fourth largest group.
As for the rest I concur with Dhomas: assimilation and abnegation of a past is the only way to be quebecois.
azrhey 21:07 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
ahh.. I’m a Montrealer… But although the Montreal/Quebec THANG has an extra layer here, you have the same issue, in other places where you have a large multicultural metropolis vs a “back country”
I’ve lived my first 5 years in small town France, my next 6 years in tiny village Portugal the next 0 in Montreal, the next 4 in London.UK and the last 4 back in Montreal. With an extra 4 years of several stints around Europe for 4 or 6 months.
Took me about 2 months to feel like a Londoner, about the same for Chicago, Paris..back to Montreal. Big large cities… even with all its quirks and differences are rather easy to be you belong to. You’re just another weirdo among a sea of weirdoes.
But Quebecer? Nah… Like I don’t feel like a Portuguese when I’m back in the village with the family, but I do feel like Lisboète after just a couple of weeks in an b&b. I have more in common with some random middle class university educated tech savvy Singaporean person of Chinese descent, than I do with some bus driver from Val d’Or ( NOTHING wrong with bus drivers of Val D’Or, but we don’t have as much in common ).
I speak French way better than I do English and I’ve been living in Canada for 1/4 of century, but I spent 2 weeks in St-Denis-sur-Richelieu and then 2 weeks in Berlin nearly back to back. Even if I don’t speak German, where do you think I felt more at home? *hint* it’s the place that delivers Thai food at 3am!
metropolises have this way of not entirely belonging to the country where they are located….
mb 21:26 on 2022-01-23 Permalink
“metropolises have this way of not entirely belonging to the country where they are located….” Yes, and not just “not entirely belonging”, but often being the complete opposite. It’s the case everywhere I can think of. Always better to identify with a city than a country, whether real or imagined.
Another corner of the Empire provides us with a more inclusive and friendly version of separatism: Scotland, where everyone is enrolled without consideration of origin, all united against England!
DeWolf 10:50 on 2022-01-24 Permalink
My answer to the question: I don’t really care. I live in Montreal, and Montreal is in Quebec, so I will always feel implicated in both places. But I don’t care if anyone thinks of me as Québécois or not, and as I’ve gotten older I’ve lost all interest in labelling myself, especially in these days where so many people wear their identities on their sleeve.
I spent 1/3 of my life overseas, some very formative years, in a place with similarly complex questions of identity. Who is a Hongkonger? Who is a 香港人? Just like “Québécois de souche” in Quebec, ethnically Cantonese people get a free pass in Hong Kong. Their identity is never questioned. But what about South Asians and Filipinos? People who don’t speak fluent Cantonese? Immigrants from mainland China? Just like ‘Québécois’, ‘Hongkonger’ is both a civic and a cultural identity, which makes things complicated. And just like here, it’s the source of endless debate.
The only sane answer is to stop caring so much about what other people think.
DeWolf 10:59 on 2022-01-24 Permalink
Also, returning to the topic that started this thread… Lise Ravary is not some kind of Quebec whisperer who speaks the truth of an entire people. She speaks only for conservative nationalists, a tribe of people whose existence is ironically universal. It doesn’t matter where you go, you’ll find the same bigotry, just in slightly different flavours.
Kate 11:26 on 2022-01-24 Permalink
To be fair, DeWolf, it bites a little deeper when the question’s being asked of someone who was not only born here, but has some family history here going back nearly 200 years (viz, me, but others as well). It hasn’t happened recently, but I’ve been asked where I’m from and told to go home, often enough to remember.
Also, a mini anecdote. I had a friend who lived here for 20 years. She was franco-Manitoban with a French name. She was reprimanded by a customer for not speaking French “properly” – she was fully fluent in both languages, but the Manitoban accent is different, a little flatter, a little more like an anglo speaking French, and the client had a problem with it.
Meezly 12:26 on 2022-01-24 Permalink
I remember talking to some boy in the neigbourhood and he asked me where I was from in French. I told him I was Canadian. Then I asked him if he was Canadian. I think he answered yes, but I specifically remembered his mother correcting him saying “he’s Quebecois first, Canadian second.”
Being an Anglo from the west coast, I’ve had conversations with other anglo friends from elsewhere about how living as an Anglo in Montreal is similar to being an ex-pat. We have most of the privileges of Canadian citizenship but are still treated like foreigners.
I’m first generation Chinese who had to assimilate growing up in BC for various reasons. I consider myself Chinese-Canadian first, a Montrealer second and Quebecer last. I really honestly don’t see myself as a Quebecer.
qatzelok 13:58 on 2022-01-24 Permalink
I find it interesting that people from non-rich countries are usally called “immigrants,” while immigrants from rich countries (like Canada) are often called “ex-pats.”
Can someone explain this difference and how it might relate to being considered “Québecois?”
Meezly 14:13 on 2022-01-24 Permalink
@qatzelok. I though I just did, and you seemed to have answered your own question…?
Kate 15:40 on 2022-01-24 Permalink
qatzelok, don’t troll. You don’t “find it interesting” and it’s a point that’s been made many times by people cleverer than you are.
Tee Owe 15:59 on 2022-01-24 Permalink
Taking qatzelok seriously for a moment – the difference is simple, and not how you define – it’s not about being rich – ex-pats can go to somewhere corresponding to home more or less whenever they choose, immigrants can’t
azrhey 16:27 on 2022-01-24 Permalink
having been both an immigrant and an ex-pat, ill give a facetious questions a serious answer…. the difference is supposed to be that an immigrant doesn’t want to go, he goes because it has to (for better conditions, more hope for the children, etc.) , whereas the ex-pat could comfortably stay put, but hey it’s shiny over there, let’s go there for a bit . This last part is also important ex-pats usually don’t plan on forever. When we moved to canada it had a finally to it because there was no way we could live in portugal with my parents skills….when I moved to ..anywhere as an adult was more like “ohhh shiny! lets go see if I like it there”
ORIGINALLY it didn’t have a segregation/racist compotent…however it IS true that expats are mostly WEIRD ( Western, Educated, Industrialized, rich, democratic ) and immigrants are PoC and other people from the Big South. So it got tainted by its own statistics.
Kevin 17:52 on 2022-01-24 Permalink
I was an ex-pat when I lived in the USA because I never intended to stay there.
My dad and other members of my extended family are immigrants because once they arrived, they never intended to leave (and never did).
jeleventybillionandone 18:58 on 2022-01-24 Permalink
I’m curious about Ian’s statement that “French-speaking Québecois … have cut themselves off from all the other historically francophone regions of Canada like Manitoba, New Brunswick or Northern Ontario”. Honest question because I genuinely don’t know anything about this topic: how does this manifest and why? Is this cutting off a passive thing (whoops, we forgot about youse) or active (let’s not talk to them because they’re not really Francophone, like Kate’s anecdote about a Francophone Manitoban’s French being dismissed as “not proper”)? Is there a difference in this cutting off depending on subpopulation (e.g., Acadians vs Franco-Ontariens)?
Kate 23:42 on 2022-01-24 Permalink
jeleventybillionandone, it’s a complicated situation, but the quick summary is that Quebec has never done much to support francophones in other provinces, despite the ostensible concerns about the fate of French as a living language in North America. There are various theories why this is so.