Order of Canada for Duvernay-Tardif and Schwarcz
Montrealers Laurent Duvernay-Tardif and Joe Schwarcz were given the Order of Canada in a raft of honours on Wednesday, although CTV’s headline “Quebec doctors appointed…” is possibly misleading. Duvernay‑Tardif is a doctor; Schwarcz is a PhD, so his title might be “doctor” but he isn’t a medical doctor.
It’s a shortcoming in our language that we use the same title for medical doctors, dentists, veterinarians and academic PhDs. Could we not have diversified this a bit?
Tim S. 21:07 on 2024-12-18 Permalink
Physician is the word you’re looking for.
Kate 21:17 on 2024-12-18 Permalink
Yes, but that word doesn’t put the word doctor out of play. We could also use “scholar” for PhDs.
My main point was that while it’s correct to call such a PhD holder “Dr Schwarcz” it’s misleading simply to call him a doctor.
H. John 22:10 on 2024-12-18 Permalink
Maybe they could correct the headline with a comma:
“Quebec doctors, Laurent Duvernay-Tardif, Joe Schwarcz appointed to Order of Canada”
since the third and fourth persons listed are both physicians and scholars:
https://x.com/RIMUHC1/status/1869452132719747486
Tim S. 23:10 on 2024-12-18 Permalink
My point is that physicians are a sub category of people who have doctorates. As far as I can tell this is a North American anglo thing, I think in the UK physician is widely used and Dr for academics is much more common. Anyone know how this works in European languages?
Tim S. 23:12 on 2024-12-18 Permalink
Or any other language, I should say.
JP 23:29 on 2024-12-18 Permalink
I think in the UK, they also like to use Prof. quite a bit. I work in continuing medical education and when we have speakers from Europe, they often prefer to have Prof in front rather than Dr. (even physicians if I recall correctly…)
thomas 23:57 on 2024-12-18 Permalink
Germany takes such distinctions in titles seriously. A professor with a PhD is addressed as “Frau/Herr Prof. Dr.”. “Dr.” alone is reserved for medical doctors. I recall an American professor (non medical) on sabbatical in Germany who was actually arrested for using ‘Dr.’ on his American business card.
Ian 08:56 on 2024-12-19 Permalink
I used to work with a bunch of Russian chemsits at a software company, who all had PhDs in chemistry. One in particular insisted on being called Dr Pavel and wanted it on his business card – I had to explain to him that in Canada only medical doctors get to be Dr. as a title, he escalated it to the president of the company (also a PhD but also a professor at the University of Moscow) who called him stupid and kicked him out of his office haha
Tim S. 10:06 on 2024-12-19 Permalink
So much for that theory. I do feel for Pavel though.
Kate 10:21 on 2024-12-19 Permalink
Within the academic world, people do understand “Dr.” as meaning a PhD. But they still don’t get referred to as a doctor. Outside the academic world I think most people would take “Dr.” to mean a physician.
TeeOwe 12:17 on 2024-12-19 Permalink
I was advised to not use Dr (non-medical PhD) on airline bookings to avoid the hassle and embarrassment of being called on if a passenger needed medical attention. But to contradict Ian and JP, in my academic world, people are usually referred to as Dr, as a default, until one knows more about their status – Professor is reserved for those who achieved that promotion. This is also the case in Canada (in my academic world anyway). I agree that it’s confusing.
jeather 12:20 on 2024-12-19 Permalink
Though in fact surgeons (but not other medical doctors) in the UK generally do not use the title Dr and go by Ms/Miss/Mrs/Mr. No idea what dentists or vets do.
Similarly to Germany, you can get in trouble for using a professional designation you are not entitled to here — chemist and biochemist are ones that I read something about recently.
JaneyB 14:25 on 2024-12-20 Permalink
@Ian. No, in Canada, Dr is reserved for PhDs not physicians. Calling medical, dental, or law degrees doctorates is a practise no more than 10 years old and is usually accompanied by the words ‘professional doctorate’. It takes much less time to do than a PhD. Also, in medicine there are plenty of MD-PhDs so the distinction is familiar to all in that world.
I normally use Dr when I’m teaching because I don’t have a permanent appointment in the university – that would allow me to use ‘Prof’. However, students don’t understand this so they call me Prof anyway. In non-academic life, I’ll use Dr but never where there could be medical issues since the public doesn’t understand the technicalities of this stuff. Medical doctors are and call themselves physicians (though are always paged Dr. Smith). Basically, ‘Doctor’ is an honorific to many people and people want to show respect for that very important profession. Medical doctors will usually have cards etc that say John Smith MD. Life is messy.
Daisy 16:22 on 2024-12-20 Permalink
Here are the rules in Quebec: https://healthenews.mcgill.ca/use-of-dr-doctor-in-quebec-and-updating-your-honorific-in-mcgills-systems/
Daisy 16:26 on 2024-12-20 Permalink
More details here: https://www.cmq.org/fr/pratiquer-la-medecine/pratique-medicale/titre-docteur
Kate 11:11 on 2024-12-21 Permalink
Thank you, Daisy.