Montreal City Weblog

Kate 08:05 on 2020-04-02 Permalink Reply  

• Ian Rogers 08:11 on 2020-04-02 Permalink

  There was no party and police agree that social distancing was properly maintained. Why the kerfuffle?
  Wait until Plante finds out I’ve been teaching classes of up to 14 people using MS Teams all week, she’ll call in the army.

• walkerp 08:13 on 2020-04-02 Permalink

  Yes, I was all ready to get outraged and then read the story. What exactly did he do wrong here? We and our neighbours were planning to do an apero from our balconies. Will the cops break it up?

• Ian 08:25 on 2020-04-02 Permalink

  Only if some nosy snitch tries to make political hay out of it, maybe.

• Kate 08:33 on 2020-04-02 Permalink

  CBC radio says Perez had someone outside playing music, which attracted people to gather outside.

• Dominic 08:50 on 2020-04-02 Permalink

  Looks like he’s saying there were 7 people who are in his family so it “looked like” a larger gathering than it was. Not sure how police are supposed to know who families are quarantined with.

  (https://twitter.com/rachel_lau/status/1245694385863430144)

• Chris 10:34 on 2020-04-02 Permalink

  Is it just me, or is everyone becoming a snitch now? At a certain point, this cure could be worse than the disease.

• Kate 10:42 on 2020-04-02 Permalink

  Chris, if you characterize reasonable concern as “becoming a snitch” then I can’t help you. This isn’t social disapproval or snobbery. Read the story about the wedding, 2 stories up from here. You hold a gathering, you enable contagion. It’s a fact, not a social fiction.

• Chris 11:09 on 2020-04-02 Permalink

  I characterize *unreasonable* concern as snitching. The line between reasonable and unreasonable is fuzzy to be sure, but I’m starting to find us sliding towards the latter. As in this Perez example.

• JaneyB 11:16 on 2020-04-02 Permalink

  @Chris – Regarding the ‘snitching’, everyone is hyper-aware and tired of being confined. They are going to notice when others are not observing the disease control protocols. The longer others gather, the longer everyone else has to stay inside to flatten the curve. Every new breach means we basically go back to Day 1 of the 14 days necessary to thwart the virus propagation. Some of us have been mostly at home for more than 3 weeks now. Whether stuck with family or isolated alone, this is not fun.

  Perez’s thing is not a problem since they were distancing but the big hotel wedding was, park gatherings are, basement parties are etc. Don’t think people won’t remember who wasn’t a team-player after this is over either. I don’t want to hate my concitoyens but I’m learning because some of them are showing me they don’t care about the common good. Frustrating.

• Chris 11:39 on 2020-04-02 Permalink

  JaneyB, yes, I quite agree with your assessment. It’s all very interesting psychologically. Person 1 is being a good citizen and staying inside, sees Person 2&3 in the park across the street tossing a frisbee, gets mad/jealous that he’s inside and they are out, and so calls the cops. But Person 2&3 already live together, and no one else is around them in the park. That’s the kind of thing I see us slipping into. (Doubly so if the person is also your political enemy.)

  >I don’t want to hate my concitoyens but I’m learning because some of them are showing me they don’t care about the common good.

  I’ve also been pondering why this sentiment doesn’t apply to environmentalism. All the people out there that don’t care about the common good by being gluttonous consumers, driving a car, using disposable goods, etc., etc. Very little scorn is poured on them vs the scorn currently being poured on the likes of Perez. Why? The best I can figure is that humans are very good at short term thinking (covid), but really bad at long term thinking (environment).

• Tim S. 12:06 on 2020-04-02 Permalink

  Chris, what are you talking about? There’s plenty of anger here directed against suburbanites, car drivers and others (I know, because I’ve expressed some of it). If extinction rebellion and so on have their way, that will just increase.

• Ian 18:07 on 2020-04-02 Permalink

  This isn’t a case of “reasonable concern”, there was no “party” or “gathering”, just some nosy busybody looking to rat out their neighbour. I do indeed think this is exactly the same kind of person that would snitch on their neighbour over environmental laws, like that lady who kept complaining to the borough about Fairmount Bagel to the point that Alex Norris decided to take up her flag and insult everyone in the neighbourhood who dared contradict him.

  Again, this is not the time to be doctrinaire. Think of context and the concerns of others before you decide what’s what, especially if it means calling the cops. We already know if you call the cops on someone you increasing that person’s chance of winding up dead.

  Here’s the thing: we will only achieve success against this pandemic by acting as a community. We will only achieve success against environmental catastrophe by acting as a community. We will only achieve success against anything that might destroy our communities by acting like a community… and I’ll tell you one thing that doesn’t improve trust and working together and acting as a community:

  snitching.

• Dhomas 19:11 on 2020-04-02 Permalink

  It’s not snitching, it’s being a concerned citizen. If you’re a family, the police will come and confirm it and you’ll be on your way. Period. The end. If you’re NOT family, then you’re in trouble. And you should be, because you’re being an inconsiderate jackass.

• Ian 20:01 on 2020-04-02 Permalink

  “Nothing to be afraid of if you;’re doing nothing wrong”, right?
  Just watch, one wrong family intervention and the cops will be shooting people. We’ve seen it before, here in Montreal.

• Stayhome! 20:16 on 2020-04-02 Permalink

  ”but he asked a friend to play music in the driveway to help the celebration”
  How is this essential? Immoral if not illegal..

• Blork 21:11 on 2020-04-02 Permalink

  There is room in this conversation for both ideas; that some people are overly vigilant in — e.g., yelling at people who are walking next to each other ignoring the fact that the people live together, or calling the cops on neighbourhood 5à7 gatherings where everyone stays in their own driveways — and people who are legitimately reporting gatherings that should not be happening.

  In this case it seems like Perez was right on the line between acceptable and not, but what tips him into “not” is his position as a public figure who should be setting an example. Yes, that matters, and that’s the price you pay when you have a soapbox that isn’t available to the average person; you have a duty to double-down on whatever it is you’re preaching (or should be preaching).

• Ian 21:54 on 2020-04-02 Permalink

  Someone standing outside playing music is immoral if not illegal? Pardon me, I think I just rolled my eyes so hard they got stuck.

  If we make out stuff like this as crucial we can hardly be surprised if people don’t take distancing seriously. We are still allowed to line up outside grocery stores, the city isn’t in full quarantine. Don’t make this out to be something it’s not, that’s just ridiculous and in the case of Plante, obvious political posturing.

• Kate 22:01 on 2020-04-02 Permalink

  I’m on Blork’s side here. Perez was responsible for setting up something on the order of an “attractive nuisance” by having music and the appearance of a social event at a time when people are getting starved for social stimulus.

• Dhomas 05:56 on 2020-04-03 Permalink

  @Ian: I would agree with your comment if you were talking about, say, mass surveillance, but this situation is entirely different. As much disdain as you seem to have for police, it’s not like it’s in their job description to shoot up citizens. At a certain point, we need to trust the police to do their jobs. We can’t fall into lawlessness because we think the cops might be “shooting people”.

• Ian 08:13 on 2020-04-03 Permalink

  So now we’re needing to not even have the “appearance” of violating social distancing laws? Creating an “attractive nuisance” is a concept used in tort law, usually talking about the safety of children. If nothing actually happened, you are playing a game of “what if”. Having a musician in your driveway is not a crime, and it’s certainly not “immoral if not illegal”. Perez may very well be the grade A jerk I have heard him described as but regardless, the police did not fine or charge him, so what exactly is the big deal here? Did an impromptu dance party erupt? Did somebody try to kiss the musician? Then what exactly happened? Nothing, that’s what. This is Plante making a mountain out of a molehill out of spite and political opportunism.

  Let’s not forget that singing on your balcony and people are playing “c” on their stoops & in their backyards across the city is being celebrated in these dark times. Having a friend play music in your driveway is no different. There is no law against music, only gatherings.

  @Dhomas right, police brutality isn’t real, you have nothing to fear if you aren’t doing anything wrong. /s

• Jack 09:42 on 2020-04-03 Permalink

  “Thursday, speaking on Radio-Canada’s morning radio program Tout un matin, Perez said he “failed in my role as a leader, to lead by example.”

• Chris 10:44 on 2020-04-03 Permalink

  Tim S., I didn’t mean there’s *no* scorn poured on “suburbanites, car drivers and others”, just that’s it’s much less than the current hysteria wrt physical distancing today.

  To take Stayhome!’s phrasing: “immoral if not illegal”. Using a disposable shopping bag instead of a reusable one is immoral, though not illegal. Ever hear of the cops being called for such an “offence”? Yet for the “offence” of standing outside playing music it’s seemingly normal to some of you here to call the cops. Why for the latter but not the former?