Mascouche train threatened by REM
The Mascouche Exo train is another feature of our public transit that could be undermined by the REM de l’est. The line’s ridership had been growing steadily before the pandemic.
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Daniel D 10:32 on 2022-02-18 Permalink
I wanted to share this fantastic fantasy transit map I came across recently (link opens in Google Drive).
So far as I can tell, the designer has based the network around existing rail infrastructure. And note how they propose an alternative routes to both Mascouche and Repentigny (and beyond!) which circumvent the limitations caused by the REM.
Unfortunately, the ship has sailed when it comes to the impact of the REM on the Mascouche line. The ARTM should have been consulted along the way, but they weren’t and I think we can all think of reasons why it was allowed to play out this way even though it went against the public interest.
But, I think there’s opportunity here for the ARTM to re-think their train network and be more ambitious than just running rush-hour trains to and from downtown. Since we know the REM isn’t aiming to complement any of the existing transit network, it doesn’t mean it couldn’t work the other way round. These are the cards the ARTM has been dealt, but it doesn’t have to mean they can’t start thinking big.
DisgruntledGoat 12:42 on 2022-02-18 Permalink
I would prefer transit more similar to the REM (grade separated, more frequent service) for workday commutes over the existing commuter rail.
Commuter rail frequency of 30 minutes up to 1+ hours outside peak times doesn’t cut it in 2022, sorry.
DeWolf 13:12 on 2022-02-18 Permalink
Commuter rail is especially useless in the new hybrid working reality. Shift workers have always needed frequent transit at off-peak times (but haven’t gotten it in many cases), now office workers need the same, because they aren’t going to be commuting at the same time every single day. We need more all-day, reliable options. Suburban rail instead of commuter rail.
John B 13:22 on 2022-02-18 Permalink
Commuter rail doesn’t have to be infrequent. The Lakeshore West line of the GO Train runs trains every half hour or more frequently for most of the day, with hourly service, late into the night, and a few busses after the last train leaves at 11:45 PM. During rush hour the trains are much more frequent. It’s not a 10-minute S-Bahn, but it’s usable to go shopping downtown on the weekend, or head home after a late shift, or even live in the city & work in the burbs.
In NYC I once left a wedding in the Hamptons, (I think?), after midnight Sunday night and took the train back to the city.
Commuter rail doesn’t have be be only for office workers doing the 9-5, but for some reason the Montreal area seems to think that’s the case.
Daniel D 14:25 on 2022-02-18 Permalink
Case in point, we have family in Repentigny but the exo service doesn’t even run at weekends making it useless to us. Considering all the money spent on getting the line up and running, this is utter madness.
There are so many quick wins like this available, but I don’t understand why they’re not being implemented when they seem so obvious.
That’s a good example showing how the GO Train is light years ahead of exo, even though the GO Train is light years behind the norm in Europe and Asia. But it’s still a higher bar to aim for than what we currently have in Montreal.
I don’t know what it will take to shake our local transit planners out of this mentality that trains are for 9-5 commuters, and everyone else should drive. It’s an utterly outdated and incorrect idea which needs to die.
ant6n 16:14 on 2022-02-18 Permalink
If prefer if big transit spending is closer to where ppl live – even when using surface rail lines.
DeWolf 19:00 on 2022-02-18 Permalink
John B, that’s exactly my point. Metro North and the LIRR aren’t really commuter rail, they’re just regular suburban railways of the type that are very common around the world (just not in North America).
As Daniel points out, Toronto is way ahead of Montreal on this, and the plans that are currently underway to electrify and double-track many GO lines, which will allow for frequent all-day service, is exactly what should be happening here.
Kate 19:53 on 2022-02-18 Permalink
The problem with our suburban trains is they’d have to be ramped up to more frequent service first, and then some good PR done to inform people, before people’s habits might change and the ridership increase. And nobody has wanted to take the risk of trying this and maybe finding out that most people would rather stick to their cars after all.
John B 20:08 on 2022-02-18 Permalink
And they’d have to keep up the improved service for, (probably), several years while people build trust that they can rely on the service once they settle farther out. The GO schedule doesn’t appear to have changed much since I was riding it in 2001/2002 – it just goes farther, but in that time a generation of kids between Hamilton and Toronto, (and probably the other lines that I don’t know as well), has grown up knowing that GO will mostly be there.
Ian 21:26 on 2022-02-18 Permalink
The GO network really is great, but it’s silly to compare it to Montreal.
“GO’s distinctive green and white trains and buses serve a population of more than seven million across more than 11,000 square km stretching from Hamilton and Kitchener-Waterloo in the west to Newcastle and Peterborough in the east, and from Orangeville and Beaverton in the north to Niagara Falls in the south.”
That’s nearly twice the population of greater Montreal. It’s also worth noting that the GDP per capita of Ontario is about 17% higher than Quebec. They are a richer province. Also worth noting, our demographics are super different – if you go 45 minutes north of Montreal you’re in bear country but you can drive all the way from Toronto to Barrie on Highway 11 (about 110 km) and it’s subdivisions all the way.
Also worth noting this is fairly recent, when I was a kid living in Hamilton the only GO transit to Toronto was the bus. You had best believe property values in Hamilton skyrocketed when the GO train station went in.
That said I agree that a commuter line is a stupid model, and until there is reliable service throughout the day and throughout the week nobody on the fringes is is going to give up cars because they simply can’t. I can go without a car living in Mile End but it’s an hour and a half to get to Sainte Anne by metro & bus, and the buses going to Ste Anne are some of the oldest, crappiest buses in the fleet.
Kids from Pointe-aux-Tremble have a similar hour and a half journey to get downtown for CEGEP or university. Classes don’t follow commuter schedules. This is only one small portion of the kind of ridership that could be guaranteed if there were reliable trains. There are more than 3000 students, teachers and workers in Ste Anne with McGill’s McDonald Campus, John Abbott College, and McDonald High school. We don’t need a new train station north of the 40 out by Ste Marie.
ant6n 05:05 on 2022-02-19 Permalink
What? Do you think there is some magical threshold for a population so that a metropolis of 8 million can support a regional rail network, but a metro of 4 million can’t? Never mind that the exist plenty of metropolitan areas with less than a million ppl that support regional rail networks. And never mind that Montreal has already shown that it can support two all-day regional rail lines – Deux Montagnes and st Jerome – despite somewhat lackluster overall planning and transit integration.
Ian 16:43 on 2022-02-19 Permalink
Population is one of only many factors.
“It’s also worth noting that the GDP per capita of Ontario is about 17% higher than Quebec. They are a richer province. Also worth noting, our demographics are super different – if you go 45 minutes north of Montreal you’re in bear country but you can drive all the way from Toronto to Barrie on Highway 11 (about 110 km) and it’s subdivisions all the way.”
The GO doesn’t serve just the GTA, it serves most of southwestern Ontario.
Also worth noting is politics – the GO is funded by Ontario. No, I don’t think Montreal, the only real city in all of Quebec can support a regional rail network becasue the province has no interest in funding something that would be perceived as only benefiting Montreal.