The cost of the Montreal dream
Le Devoir inquired into what kind of lifestyle most Montrealers aspire to, and what it costs.
Do most of us really want to own a house in town, a cottage in the Eastern Townships and an electric car, and have two kids and a dog?
EmilyG 09:57 on 2023-08-26 Permalink
I might like a house in town, but I don’t want a car at all because I don’t drive. And without driving, it’d be hard to get to a cottage in the country.
(Is that why that hypothetical Montrealer “needs” a car? To drive their kids and dog from their house in town to their cottage in the Eastern Townships?)
I myself would be happy with a decent apartment in town.
Kevin 11:30 on 2023-08-26 Permalink
A heckuva lot of people say they want this but then they get stuck in the 4 hour traffic jams on a Sunday evening and nope right out of that idea.
The dream that occupies a tiny fraction of their everyday life obliterates the 90% rule, and people end up spending way more than they should on things they don’t get to enjoy much.
Blork 11:32 on 2023-08-26 Permalink
It’s not a survey of what most Montrealers aspire to; it’s a survey of what 100 people under 30 aspire to.
I’ve been casting a sceptical eye on the opinions of people under 30 ever since I turned 31.
Aineko Marcx 11:35 on 2023-08-26 Permalink
“I dreamed a dream in time gone by
When hope was high and life worth living”
Kind of curious about ehere should people’s wishes goes after these humble first-world dreams come true? Maybe a sail boat in the dock for the summer, and a jet-setting retirement for the winter?
Kate 14:18 on 2023-08-26 Permalink
Owning two houses isn’t exactly a humble aspiration. Even owning one, in this market.
Blork 14:34 on 2023-08-26 Permalink
OK, let’s put it in perspective. This isn’t saying most people want ALL of those things.
First, it’s a small survey (about 100 people) who were all 30 or younger. That right there should tell you something.
Next, only 57% said they want to own a house in Montreal. 55% said they want a chalet. There is no information on how much overlap there is. (I.e., do the same people who want a house also want a chalet, or is it the people who are happy with a condo or rental who want a chalet?)
70% said they want two kids which should be no surprise in our breeder-oriented society. 80% want a dog.
The only surprising item was that 84% said they want a car, with most preferring an electric car. That goes against everything we thought we knew about the under-30 crowd.
But it’s doubtful that very many people said they want ALL of those things, so it’s erroneous to say the survey represents what most Montrealers aspire to. It’s just a mixed bag of a not very scientific survey, and the article ends with a summary of what it would cost if someone were daft enough to actually aspire to all of that.
TL;DR: you’d need a combined income of about $225,000, which is actually doable for a couple of game developers or other tech workers, although I think most of the under-30 ones are probably not making six figures that early in their careers, and I don’t think that leaves much room for things like retirement savings.
NOT mentioned is that if you aspire to ALL of that, and if you work hard enough in your 20s to be able to afford it, the one very big thing you’ll be missing out on is this: a life.
Working a six figure job is hard enough. Add the care and maintenance of not one, but two houses? Plus the care and feeding and helicoptering of two children? Throw in a dog just for good measure? That is not a life. That is slavery to your aspirations.
Kevin 17:13 on 2023-08-26 Permalink
Blork
The car thing is perfectly in line with my expectations of what people want.
The cost of living defers wants, it rarely eliminates them entirely.
Ian 18:45 on 2023-08-26 Permalink
None of those aspirations are unrealistic.
This kind of conversation always comes down to arguments about what is “normal” and what “normal” desires are.
I have a car because I live in the Plateau and work in Ste Anne. Yeah, I know, why live in the most expensive part of town if you don’t work there? Well, I lived there 30 years before I got this job 8 years ago, but hey, I don’t want to live in Ste Anne, and I don’t want to waste 3 hours a day (minimum) commuting. Take it up with the Ministry of Education why I can’t transfer from one CEGEP to another despite technically being an employee of the state, not the college.
I do have access to a cottage through my wife’s family, not on a lake but up north at least. There’s a nice lake and great hiking trails in the area, and I don’t have to worry about cyclists riding up my ass when I’m walking on a trail. There are also great bike trails throughout the region.
I like cats more than dogs, dogs more than mushrooms, mushrooms more than flowers, flowers more than insects, insects more than rocks, rocks more than stars (etc) – but if someone wants a dog, why is that so bad?
I have 2 kids. You don’t have to have kids, but when you get old, my kids and other people’s kids will be the ones taking care of you.
Keep in mind that I’m 53; to want this life in your 20s is fine, but to expect it in your 20s is dreaming in Technicolor™ unless, as Blork points out, you waste your youth on aspirational money-grubbing.
If we’re just doing wish-fulfillment, I’d like a castle and a pony 😀
Blork 21:34 on 2023-08-26 Permalink
Kevin, the folklore has it that millennials and gen-Zers are largely forsaking cars and in many cases not even getting drivers licenses. That’s the folklore we’ve been hearing for a decade. So this survey showing that 84% of under-30s want a car goes against that folklore.
Kevin 18:53 on 2023-08-27 Permalink
Blork
The folkore is based on incorrect interpretations of data and failing to realize that a cellphone gobbles up huge amounts of income while also promoting “freedom”.
There are actually more 25-45 year olds with licences now than ten years ago
US data: https://www.statista.com/statistics/206311/total-number-of-us-licensed-drivers-in-2010-by-age/