Given how broke the STM is, I wonder how much money has been saved over the years by using OPUS cards instead of paper tickets and cash, if any. 146m seems a lot for an outfit that can’t even return to pre-covid bus schedules.
@Ian gotta count all the times people didn’t have to pay a fare because the reader was out of service (in my case – many, many times). $146M seems insane.
Meanwhile, when you are in many cities, including NYC and Sydney, you just tap your CC to pay your fare and tap out when you get off. It tracks how often and gives you the best fare, so it puts pending transactions to make sure the money is there, but if you take a lot of buses one day, it may take the daily pass, if you do it 3 days in a row, it may charge you just the difference from the daily pass. And if you go a week, it will take just the difference for the weekly pass. And a week can be any 7 day period.
I’m hoping that this new system won’t be smartphone-only. I do have a smartphone, but I don’t always bring it with me, and when I do, I don’t constantly have it out in public. But the link that MarcG posted above seems to say that there will be cards available (smartcards, they call them.)
To the best of my knowledge, anyway. I don’t know much about technology.
They could save a whole lot of bother and confusion – while making the system more user friendly and phone-friendly – by getting rid of the price differential for people boarding from Laval and Longueuil. That requires a different kind of ticket, and for some users that means a separate OPUS card. I don’t know how they will manage that as a phone app, especially if there is no “tap in/tap out” system in place.
For example, if I board at Peel station and my destination is Laval, I’m supposed to use the A+B ticket, not an A ticket. How does the phone know, when I’m tapping in, what my destination is? Currently you basically need two OPUS cards; if you know you’re getting off at Laval or Longueuil then you’re supposed to use your A+B card. The A card will work, but you run the risk of getting busted in Laval or Longueuil if there’s a random spot check. (Those are rare, but not unheard of.)
Going the other way you MUST use the A+B card. Theoretically, I think you can use one card that has both types of tickets on it, and the turnstile in Laval/Longueuil will pick the right one, but then you face the first problem (above) when you are coming home. (BTW, my A+B OPUS has “A+B” written on it, so it is a different card; I’m not sure if you can put A+B tickets on a non-A+B card.)
Also: you can just use an A+B card (with A+B tickets) for everything, but then you’re paying the premium price for every on-island ride, and who wants to do that? Thus the need for two cards.
All that for what? So they can get an extra dollar per rider. But how much does it cost them to run this multi-zone system with all of its complications?
Of course none of this applies to users with a monthly pass. In that case it’s a no-brainer. It just works; your one monthly fee gets you all rides everywhere and A+B zone people just pay more for the monthly pass.
All that to say, good luck using your phone for transit. It will probably be straightforward for people who live on the island but not for the thousands of people who commute in from Zone B.
@EmilyG, there’s no way it would be phone only. That would just be an option.
Plus to Ephraim on using a credit/debit card – I commented on this over. year ago based on a London visit, just recently was in Marseille, same system – all these places also have dedicated cards if you want them, as well as options for single fare payments and passes. No need to reinvent the wheel here.
Even Toronto has something similar. In fact, it’s integrated with the suburban trains so you can go from Niagara Falls, Barrie, Oshawa, or Kitchener to Toronto and use all the local transit on the same pass system. It’s pretty impressive compared to the tiny access zones we have here.
I deal with tourists pretty much every day and when I explain to them what they need to do to get on a bus if they don’t have exact change, they more often than not elect to take a cab or Uber. I can’t really blame them. If they could just swipe a credit card and get on the bus, I’m sure many more visitors would take the bus to get around.
Do we have figures on riding for free? How much do we spend on security teams checking fares, turnstile maintenance and so forth, vs how much we lose to people riding for free?
I don’t have the numbers to hand, but memory suggests we mostly police those things because society demands it, not because it means more money for the STM. In fact, it may be counterproductive.
Just got back from Vancouver. Even though we rented a car, we took the bus sometimes as it was easier to take transit, and TransLink made things easy by swiping with a credit card. I once asked for a transfer and the bus driver told me the data is stored in my CC, to just treat it like a fare card. I felt like a hick as I was so amazed. This system makes so much sense for occasional users who don’t want to deal with fare cards, exact change, downloading apps, etc.
Ian 18:12 on 2025-07-18 Permalink
Given how broke the STM is, I wonder how much money has been saved over the years by using OPUS cards instead of paper tickets and cash, if any. 146m seems a lot for an outfit that can’t even return to pre-covid bus schedules.
Joey 10:19 on 2025-07-19 Permalink
@Ian gotta count all the times people didn’t have to pay a fare because the reader was out of service (in my case – many, many times). $146M seems insane.
Ephraim 10:38 on 2025-07-19 Permalink
Meanwhile, when you are in many cities, including NYC and Sydney, you just tap your CC to pay your fare and tap out when you get off. It tracks how often and gives you the best fare, so it puts pending transactions to make sure the money is there, but if you take a lot of buses one day, it may take the daily pass, if you do it 3 days in a row, it may charge you just the difference from the daily pass. And if you go a week, it will take just the difference for the weekly pass. And a week can be any 7 day period.
MarcG 11:44 on 2025-07-19 Permalink
According to the article the company hired to do the job is the same one NYC uses and this is the system. https://www.masabi.com/justride/
Kate 12:33 on 2025-07-19 Permalink
If the system already exists and only needs some customization, it seems excessive that it should cost $146M.
EmilyG 12:53 on 2025-07-19 Permalink
I’m hoping that this new system won’t be smartphone-only. I do have a smartphone, but I don’t always bring it with me, and when I do, I don’t constantly have it out in public. But the link that MarcG posted above seems to say that there will be cards available (smartcards, they call them.)
To the best of my knowledge, anyway. I don’t know much about technology.
Blork 13:43 on 2025-07-19 Permalink
They could save a whole lot of bother and confusion – while making the system more user friendly and phone-friendly – by getting rid of the price differential for people boarding from Laval and Longueuil. That requires a different kind of ticket, and for some users that means a separate OPUS card. I don’t know how they will manage that as a phone app, especially if there is no “tap in/tap out” system in place.
For example, if I board at Peel station and my destination is Laval, I’m supposed to use the A+B ticket, not an A ticket. How does the phone know, when I’m tapping in, what my destination is? Currently you basically need two OPUS cards; if you know you’re getting off at Laval or Longueuil then you’re supposed to use your A+B card. The A card will work, but you run the risk of getting busted in Laval or Longueuil if there’s a random spot check. (Those are rare, but not unheard of.)
Going the other way you MUST use the A+B card. Theoretically, I think you can use one card that has both types of tickets on it, and the turnstile in Laval/Longueuil will pick the right one, but then you face the first problem (above) when you are coming home. (BTW, my A+B OPUS has “A+B” written on it, so it is a different card; I’m not sure if you can put A+B tickets on a non-A+B card.)
Also: you can just use an A+B card (with A+B tickets) for everything, but then you’re paying the premium price for every on-island ride, and who wants to do that? Thus the need for two cards.
All that for what? So they can get an extra dollar per rider. But how much does it cost them to run this multi-zone system with all of its complications?
Of course none of this applies to users with a monthly pass. In that case it’s a no-brainer. It just works; your one monthly fee gets you all rides everywhere and A+B zone people just pay more for the monthly pass.
All that to say, good luck using your phone for transit. It will probably be straightforward for people who live on the island but not for the thousands of people who commute in from Zone B.
@EmilyG, there’s no way it would be phone only. That would just be an option.
Tee Owe 16:01 on 2025-07-19 Permalink
Plus to Ephraim on using a credit/debit card – I commented on this over. year ago based on a London visit, just recently was in Marseille, same system – all these places also have dedicated cards if you want them, as well as options for single fare payments and passes. No need to reinvent the wheel here.
Ian 21:32 on 2025-07-19 Permalink
Even Toronto has something similar. In fact, it’s integrated with the suburban trains so you can go from Niagara Falls, Barrie, Oshawa, or Kitchener to Toronto and use all the local transit on the same pass system. It’s pretty impressive compared to the tiny access zones we have here.
CE 00:08 on 2025-07-20 Permalink
I deal with tourists pretty much every day and when I explain to them what they need to do to get on a bus if they don’t have exact change, they more often than not elect to take a cab or Uber. I can’t really blame them. If they could just swipe a credit card and get on the bus, I’m sure many more visitors would take the bus to get around.
Steven 00:16 on 2025-07-20 Permalink
They really need to upgrade the turnstiles at the same time so not that many people jump them and ride for free.
Kate 09:07 on 2025-07-20 Permalink
Do we have figures on riding for free? How much do we spend on security teams checking fares, turnstile maintenance and so forth, vs how much we lose to people riding for free?
I don’t have the numbers to hand, but memory suggests we mostly police those things because society demands it, not because it means more money for the STM. In fact, it may be counterproductive.
Meezly 10:52 on 2025-07-20 Permalink
Just got back from Vancouver. Even though we rented a car, we took the bus sometimes as it was easier to take transit, and TransLink made things easy by swiping with a credit card. I once asked for a transfer and the bus driver told me the data is stored in my CC, to just treat it like a fare card. I felt like a hick as I was so amazed. This system makes so much sense for occasional users who don’t want to deal with fare cards, exact change, downloading apps, etc.