French in Montreal face election outcome
Lots of pieces this weekend on the French election in Montreal and how our French expats citizens resident here are facing the rise of the right in that country. It seems that nos français mostly lean left.
-
Kate
Reply
Ian 10:27 on 2024-07-01 Permalink
The vast majority of French citizens I have met that aren’t here as students moved here specifically because our society is less rigid and has many more opportunities for social and economic mobility, especially for those from former colonial countries. The class structure is an immediate obstacle for many in France, even if they are not POC.
Even in my area, close to UdeM, we have lots of young French university students who are white, have Parisian accents, and come from money … but like university students the world over, many of them lean left, too. Sous les pavés la plage!
vasi 11:14 on 2024-07-01 Permalink
Also RN has promised to limit government employment for dual-nationals, which obviously concerns many French citizens living abroad.
Cathe 11:23 on 2024-07-01 Permalink
I would encourage you in reviewing your choice of words such as ‘expats’ when talking about a specific type of immigrant/temporary immigrant. Linking here an article from almost 10 years ago : “Why are white people expats while the rest of us are immigrants” https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2015/mar/13/white-people-expats-immigrants-migration
Kate 11:41 on 2024-07-01 Permalink
I used the word “expats” specifically because these news stories refer to people who live here while maintaining their French citizenship, and thus their right to vote in France and return there when they wish. It has no reference to the colour of their skin.
DeWolf 12:09 on 2024-07-01 Permalink
The article Cathe linked to includes a very long quote from me (!), or more specifically from an article I wrote for the Wall Street Journal about 10 years ago. In true Guardian style it’s a bit more sensational and loses a lot of the nuance of what I was writing about.
The term expat implies privilege. In many cases, privilege intersects with whiteness, but not always, so it’s reductive to say that only white people get to be expats while everyone else is seen as an immigrant. There are plenty of racialized people/people of colour who are described as expats. Saudi expats in London, for example. Japanese expats in New York. Rich Nigerians are likely to be called expats while poor Nigerians are going to be considered migrants. It’s a class issue more than anything else.
In the very particular context of French citizens in Montreal, there’s any number of terms you can use to describe them. Many are immigrants who have moved here permanently or at least with the intention of staying long term and putting down roots. If you look at media coverage, they are usually referred to as “French immigrants.” But there certainly are a lot of French people here who fall into the expat category. They are here for a few years, living in neighbourhoods full of other French people, maybe they’ll stay but maybe they’ll go back to France or move on to another city or country. In other words, classic expats. So why not call them what they are?
CE 16:44 on 2024-07-01 Permalink
I lived in Latin America for a few years but had no intention of staying long-term. I would refer to myself as an expat while I was there. Had I planned to stay, I would have been an immigrant. I’m white but this applied to the other foreigners I met there regardless of the colour of their skin or country they came from. There are better ways to win internet points Cathe.
Nicholas 17:07 on 2024-07-01 Permalink
The voters in Montreal went 56% for the green left candidate and 23% for the Renaissance (Macron) candidate. The electoral district Montreal is in is US+Canada (1st district), and results district-wide were 39% Macron and 36% green left, so there will be a runoff between those two. Montreal consulate voters gave 10% of their votes to the RN (Le Pen), and 1.7% to another far right party (Reconquete), and then 4% to the traditional right wing party LR (Sarkozy, Chirac, etc). So a sixth of the vote here went right, just over a quarter to the centre, and just over half to the left. In North America, it was a bit more far-right and right, and a lot more centre, with the centre winning all consulates except Montreal, Quebec, Moncton, Vancouver and New Orleans (which is tiny with only 270 voters), which all went green left. Miami had the highest proportion of far right voters, followed by Quebec City and Houston, which I find interesting in showing the difference between Montreal and Quebec. Lastly, the campaigning here seemed to work, as Montreal had the highest turnout (in both percent and total voters) of any consulate in North America (and you could vote online, so it wasn’t just that people live close to the city).
Kate 18:24 on 2024-07-01 Permalink
Thanks for the moral support, CE and DeWolf, and thanks for the election stats, Nicholas.
I wonder how the French self-select along political lines between Quebec City and Montreal.
Nicholas 19:44 on 2024-07-01 Permalink
The consulates all have a defined area, so you can’t choose. Montreal’s area is most of the population of Quebec and also Nunavut (plus some roles of the Moncton one (which has Atlantic Canada), and visas country-wide), while Quebec gets most of the area of the province. Ottawa doesn’t handle any voting, so Gatineau is part of Montreal and Ottawa (and all of Ontario and Manitoba) is part of Toronto, with Vancouver getting the West and the two western territories.
Blork 19:57 on 2024-07-01 Permalink
You gotta give the NY Times props for this headline: “The Center Collapses in France, Leaving Macron Marooned”
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/01/world/europe/macron-election-national-rally.html
JP 22:14 on 2024-07-01 Permalink
I’m with Cathe on this. A lot of people from other countries live here and maintain their right/ability to go back and vote in elections…and they’re not called expats. It’s a nice word but I know I’d never be considered an expat in any country…With that said, it’s Kate’s blog so she can use whatever word she wishes. At least it created this dialogue.
GC 07:59 on 2024-07-02 Permalink
I definitely try to use it like CE does. When I lived overseas, I intended it to be temporary, so I called _myself_ an expat. The people I know here who have all intentions of staying I would call immigrants.
BUT, that doesn’t change the fact that many people do use the terms the way Cathe describes. So, yes, it’s good to have this dialogue. I try to remind myself that, because of that, people might misunderstand my intentions.
Kate 08:43 on 2024-07-02 Permalink
So what word should I use for people living here who originated in another country but do not intend to immigrate permanently, and are still participating in the political life of the other country during their stay here?
azrhey 09:57 on 2024-07-02 Permalink
Well, I do agree with the general consensus of short term = expat , long term = immigrant. I am and have been both. I’ve moved to Canada with the parents age 11, for an indefinite period of time from Portugal. I am an immigrant here ( although I am a Canadian too ow, I still consider myself an immigrant due to cultural differences and what not). Since living in Canada I have made a 1 year stint in France and a 4 year stint in the UK, both came with a deadline ( with the option to renew of course, but there were no long terms plan there.. ) so I was an expat there.
However, Kate, I disagree with our “participating in the political life” being a part of the equation. I’ve always voted in Portuguese elections ( and europium elections) since I was 18. It has no bearing, for me, in my status on Canadian soil. It is just a right that I have as a Portuguese citizen to vote and it is my moral obligation to vote in any and all elections and have the right too ( parent were raised during fascism, voting is a big deal on our house ) . I do the same for Canadian elections (and the UK while I was there because Commonwealth citizens can vote in UK elections, Brexit was all sorts of fun! )
Anyhow, Beyond the immigrant = long term setting out roots, and expat = short term stint, I also add the expat = mostly volunteer move whereas immigrant = move out of necessity ( economic, or politic… ) Most expats I know are there because they want to, they could have stayed home and keep living a mostly decent life, whereas immigrants, more often than not would have preferred to stay home but had to leave for reasons. It does mostly map over white/non-white or rich/poor people but only because that’s the reality of the world we live in…
( sorry for the long rant, it is a rather personal, touchy, subject for moi 🙂 )
Kate 10:29 on 2024-07-02 Permalink
Thank you for explaining all that, azhrey.
But what word should I be using for the 200,000 French citizens living in Montreal now? Some may stay – or their children will. Some may eventually go home or move on. Migration is not what it was in the 19th or early 20th centuries.
GC 12:23 on 2024-07-02 Permalink
I don’t think that was ranty at all, azhrey. And I also appreciate your take on it. I’m someone who’s never tried to emigrate anywhere. I just went temporarily to another country, by choice, and then came back after a couple of years–also by choice. I realize that’s not representative of why a lot of people change countries, so others might have different perspectives on the terminology.
Kate, I don’t know… Maybe “French citizens living in Montreal” IS the best way, even if it’s a bit wordy? That should cover the ones that are citizens of France without being citizens of Canada, as well as the ones who are citizens of both? (And, also those who intend to leave as much as those who intend to stay…)
Kate 13:42 on 2024-07-02 Permalink
OK, I will remove this word from my vocabulary. Apologies to all whom I unwittingly offended.
Joey 13:50 on 2024-07-02 Permalink
It’s easy to get caught up in semantic discussions; it’s even easier to ignore the major increase in the number of well-off French citizens living in Montreal in the context of a housing crisis that is being blamed on some vague group of temporary foreign workers. As if it’s the hardscrabble strawberry-pickers driving up rents in the Plateau but definitely not the upper middle global ex-pat citizen class from France.
azrhey 14:47 on 2024-07-02 Permalink
yeah in the context of “elections in France” I think French citizens is the best term as their legal status in Canada ( temp worker, immigrant, student visa ) isn’t the important part.
Generally, I’d go with immigrant rather than expat, because by the numbers there are more of them than expats (which include student visas IMO ) . But also many media ( not that I have seen it here in this blog, I don’t think ) tend to mention people’s ethnic or immigration origins in articles where it is irrelevant.
I remembering an article on JdM ( I know, I know ) about a drunk driver of central American origin, hitting a pedestrian in Montreal, how was that needed ?
CE 16:06 on 2024-07-02 Permalink
@Kate, I don’t think you need to or should remove the word from your vocabulary. “Expat” refers to a a group of people in a specific circumstance as described above. When speaking of a large group of people who could be either expats or immigrants, I think it’s best not to use one word or the other but it’s a useful word for people in those circumstances.
I wouldn’t worry about anyone you’ve offended, they’re likely going to go out of their way to be offended by as many things as they can possibly find to make themselves feel better about themselves or to score useless internet points.
Tee Owe 16:35 on 2024-07-02 Permalink
I am a Canadian citizen living in a European country with long term residency status -I can vote in Canadian elections and am glad for that- how should I be described?
CE 16:56 on 2024-07-02 Permalink
I would say that you should describe yourself however you want to describe yourself.
Tee Owe 12:28 on 2024-07-03 Permalink
Expat then.
Ian 15:14 on 2024-07-03 Permalink
Joey hit the nail on the head, it’s not about citizenship or even ethnicity, it’s about class.
“As if it’s the hardscrabble strawberry-pickers driving up rents in the Plateau but definitely not the upper middle global ex-pat citizen class from France.”
Those “upper middle global ex-pat citizen class from France” are exactly the kind of people Legault wants coming here, especially if they are white – but well-off will do. Ex-pats, immigrants, whatever – just no refugees or poors, thanks.