Valérie Plante says the city will not disobey the CAQ’s secularity law even while planning to register its disapproval. She also says the fuss about “ethnic cleansing” has derailed an important debate.
Updates from April, 2019 Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts
-
Kate
-
Kate
The metro got 4% busier last year, with more than a million users on some days for the first time. The STM also heard more complaints last year, but these were mostly about bus service.
DeWolf
Since there’s often so much negativity in the air, I just want to say how impressed I am with the metro these days. I moved back to Montreal last year after a decade in Hong Kong, a city with arguably the world’s best and most efficient metro system, the MTR. I was expecting to be frustrated by the metro. But just the opposite. The metro is better than I can ever remember, thanks to service improvements and the new Azur cars, and the dramatic stations are a refreshing change from the MTR’s very busy, utilitarian, brightly lit and commercial environment.
Now the bus system on the other hand…
Mark Côté
I recently started regularly commuting at rush hour from NDG to downtown and back for the first time in quite a few years. I’m really impressed with the 105 service. In the morning they come every few minutes, and sometimes they aren’t even completely full. In the afternoon they have buses pulling in every few minutes, with someone outside directing passengers onto them and letting drivers know when to leave. They’re still crowded, but I rarely have to wait outside more than a few minutes, despite the fact that the line is normally rather long.
-
Kate
The OQLF says the use of “Bonjour-Hi” as a commercial greeting is growing in Montreal but it doesn’t interfere with receiving service in French. In addition, most young people don’t see why it’s an issue. Gazette gets a bit red-raggy with the headline Politicians have failed to kill Bonjour-Hi.
Ginger Baker
OH MY GAWD!
Merchants are accommodating their clients!?!?!?!?!?!
THIS WILL DESTROY THE FRENCH LANGUAGE!
***
Seriously though, everyone vote for the PQ next election. It’s time to sink all foreign investment in Quebec, once and for all, and drive down property values province-wide.
Let’s do everything we can, together, to make sure no one ever wants to come here again.
Clément
Two solitudes:
Francophones don’t understand why they can’t be greeted in French in a business in Québec.
Anglophones don’t understand why it’s a big deal to francophones.Ross
Try to find a francophone montrealer that thinks this is a problem. This is just a région made up problem to fill news cycle.
jeather
They *are* being greeted in French. They aren’t being greeted exclusively in French.
Blork
@Clément, as Jeather indicated, “bonjour-hi” is French, just not exclusively French. Anglophones who are not fluently bilingual — in particular ones from the RoC or the US, including tourists and other people who are here only temporarily — really appreciate the “hi” part. It signals “I’m not going to judge you if your French isn’t good.” It lets the Anglo/tourist/etc. Know they are not going to have an awkward and embarrassing interaction with the clerk. Some people don’t care about that kind of awkwardness but others are highly sensitive to it. I fully agree that the greeting should be in French, but the extra little signal is appreciated by some.
Ian
Maybe if the clerks said BONJOUR twice as loud as “hi” that would meet OQLF standards? /s
Chris
‘Bonjour’ is twice as many syllables as ‘hi’, maybe that makes it ok? 🙂
DeWolf
The controversy over Bonjour-hi is nonsense… but I think anglophones tend to wilfully overlook just how many shops are decidedly English-first in their approach to customers. I’ve gone into a number of places downtown, in the west end or in the southwest, and before I even open my mouth, I’m greeted by a “Hello” or a “Hey how’s it going.” And my head isn’t even that square.
-
Kate
Longtime Montreal photo store Lozeau has been sold to Ontario owners, with the claim it will stay open and operate as it has for many years on St-Hubert.
Ian
Having shopped at Henry’s several times over decades I am certain it will be a good fit. I am glad Lozeau is staying open on St. Huey, it’s a great place.
-
Kate
McGill University is giving up the team name Redmen, which dates back to the 1920s.
Blork
I was on the fence over this, given that the name was always about the school colors and not a reference to first nations people, but Principal Suzanne Fortier makes a good case in her official statement, and I agree with the decisions.
Official statement is here: https://www.mcgill.ca/principal/communications/statements/decision-about-redmen-name
Mark Côté
My favourite quote: “Intention, however benign, does not negate prejudicial effect.”
Ginger Baker
McGill’s flag should be changed because the Martlets – from a distance – look like three Ks.
Also, that commemorative stone indicating Hochelaga was on Lower Field is known to be bogus – the stone should be relocated to the middle of the intersection of Metcalfe & Maisonneuve. As it is, it’s literally cultural mis-appropriation.
Chris
Ginger, I can’t tell if that’s sarcasm… Here’s some more for ya: McGill should also rename itself to not be “McGill”, since James McGill was a slave owner.
-
Kate
A canard has been going around claiming that cafés in St-Michel’s Petit Maghreb bar women from entering. It simply is not true. Quoting Toula Drimonis on Facebook: “Some of the people sharing the post live hundreds of miles outside of Montreal and have never visited these cafes. Online threats are issued against the owners. […] Also, those claiming this is about potential gender inequality and not Islamophobia, walk by any Greek cafe on Jean Talon and tell me how many women you see in there. No one seems concerned about my people.”
qatzelok
And even if it is true, what’s wrong with having social spaces that are mainly for men? Cafes in many North African countries are male-only, and this leads to very interesting conversations and male bonding. Are these things really so bad?
Chris
Deliberately spreading lies is of course deplorable, and knowing what’s true/real is hard in the facebook age.
But we must acknowledge that part of the problem here is that it’s so plausible.
It took just a minute to find an example, in France, of women being disallowed from cafes. Doesn’t look like fake news as it has hidden camera audio/video evidence and was reported by a reputable newspaper:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/17/french-bar-tells-women-isnt-paris-men/
This is, in no small part, due to Islam, and its inherently sexist ideology.
Bill 21 is no solution to this problem, as regulating what’s *on* your head does not fix what’s *in* your head. Bad ideas (Islam) need to be combated with better ideas.
qatzelok: Shall we have whites only cafes too? Would lead to very interesting conversations and bonding I’m sure.
qatzelok
Chris. Gender and skin tone are very différent things. Women enjoy lots of gender specific socialisation, so men could learn a lot by imitating this.
jonathan
qatzelok: I guess the idea is that men have been socializing and congregating together for hundreds of years in places like government, boardrooms, offices, media, pubs, cafés, everywhere really where they have shared some very interesting thoughts and made lots of decisions that impacted women.
That there are spaces often dedicated to women is a direct response to creating spaces where women can have conversation and make decisions about and for themselves.
qatzelok
The story is being framed as “Of course they don’t have male specific socialization institutions!” as if that was a good thing. That is the point I was trying to suggest.
And male and female specific socialization opportunities have probably existed as long as genders have. And what’s wrong with that?
We just feel the need to “improve” everything, even if we don’t really improve anything at all, and just end up following harmful trends.
walkerp
Seriously, Chris? The OP is about how people are sharing fakenews far from where they live and you immediately google up some cafe in Paris as a counterpoint?! The mind boggles.
Chris
qatzelok, how are gender/sex and skin tone “very different things”? They are both minor genetic differences that people neither choose nor can they change (nor should they).
walkerp, I’m not sure what’s boggling to you, and fear you have missed my point. I’ll try again. Fake news is bad, lying is bad, spreading lies is bad, knowing what’s true is hard, sexism is bad, Bill 21 is bad. But, Islam is also bad. The fake news in the example tricks people precisely because it’s so plausible, it is indeed a thing that does happen elsewhere, and it happens, in large part, because of the bad ideas in Islam. Many people seem unwilling to confront the veracity of this last part.
Ian
My barber on Parc will only cut men’s hair, but he’s French and white.
Chris
Ian: your point being? Because it looks like a syllogistic fallacy. I’ve not claimed that Islam is the only route to sexism; there are others paths of course.
Kate
Chris, you also overlook a big thing: even if you don’t like some of the principles promoted by Islam, they are no threat here.
Chris
Kate, “no” threat is an exaggeration (see 9/11), but I acknowledge that Islam is but a small threat here, and our society certainly has bigger problems to deal with. But my concerns extend beyond our little island, to all people of Earth. It’s a larger threat in Europe, and of course a daily threat in the Middle East and northern Africa. It’s a global world these days, and ideas, good and bad, spread easily and quickly. Bad ideas should be called out, even if it hurts feelings.
-
Kate
Hampstead mayor Bill Steinberg, dogpiled on by Justin Trudeau and Valérie Plante among others, has backed off from using ‘ethnic cleansing’ to describe Bill 21.
Jonathan
I’m sorry, but the Jewish people don’t have ownership of the word ethnic cleansing. If it brings up thoughts of genocide and the holocaust, that shouldn’t take away from the meaning of ethnic cleansing. Genocide is just one way ethnic cleansing can happen.
There are many ways that ethnic cleansing can happen, and the end result is what is referred to by Steinberg. Taken by definition, the effects of Bill 21 – whether intended or not, may very well result in ethnic cleansing (in this case, the forced removal of people belonging to a certain ethnic or religious group by the majority ethnicity).
I don’t see a problem with what Steinberg said, and I think calling it out and criticizing him takes away from the gravity of what Bill 21 actually does.
Ian
If, in the end, everyone who is inclined to wear a turban, kippeh, or hijab leaves Quebec this is exactly the vision of secularism that CAQ supports. Remember, according to Québecois ethno-nationalism, multiculturalism is a federal Liberal conspiracy to undermine Quebec’s “real” culture. I have seen editorials openly embracing this thought from all of the major French language newspapers for decades, this is not a conspiracy theory. If we can’t call it ethnic cleansing, what shall we call intentionally driving legitimate citizens away based on how much they embrace their “otherness” and fail to assimilate?
-
Kate
The STM invited the media to see how much work is done in the metro overnight. Radio-Canada writes about why the metro can’t stay open all night with rare exceptions; La Presse gives a glimpse of the work done in the brief window before the service reopens at 5:30. This is evidently being done in response to city hall opposition demanding more overnight services, but the STM is laying out reasons it thinks this is a bad idea. Right now there are 130 distinct sites where work is being done in the metro, much of it only possible when the current is turned off overnight. Almost all our media have different stories and photos Friday morning.
Steve Quilliam
I understand the STM needs to close for several hours during the night for work and maintenance. But are they also as many workers beetwen saturday night and sunday morning ?
ant6n
The interesting nights are Fri-Sa, Sa-Su
Kate
Steve: yes, if they need the work done, the workers will be there.
-
Kate
The city will be organizing its anniversary celebrations alone this year after disagreements with two organizations that have collaborated on the celebrations for decades, the philosophy of Projet being somewhat at odds with theirs.
Ian
Whoah, conservative, white, French, and Catholic is at odds with multicultural, secular progressives?
Imagine. I am sure Drapeau is rolling in his grave at the thought.
Hamza 05:50 on 2019-04-13 Permalink
Funny how comments about ethnic cleansing derails the debate but the shit that gets posted every day on Martineau and La Meute pages are totally normal.
Ian 18:15 on 2019-04-13 Permalink
Hey scapegoating is always easier than actually standing up for what you believe to be right.
FWIW a large part of the ethnic cleansing debate overlooks what was actually decided by the winning countries after WW2, the best way to keep folks from fighting is to send them back to their homelands based on their ethnicity regardless of how many centuries their people had lived wherever, you saw that with German ethnics, Slovak ethnics, and hey, even Israel.
When the winning side of world war frickin 2 openly figured the best way to prevent genocide was literally rounding up people and sending them to live in ethnic enclaves as the best solution to prevent war it’s not crazy to suggest that this form of ethnic cleansing (or whatever you want to call it) is a real trope within ethnic nationalism that runs in essential opposition to multiculturalism, the ostensible goal of Canadian culture. Let’s not forget that the CAQ is of the mind that multiculturalism is in essence a betrayal of Quebec’s identity.
Kate 09:09 on 2019-04-14 Permalink
Ian, I wasn’t so aware that this was a deliberate decision following WWII but reading the Wikipedia article on the breakup of Yugoslavia is informative. Having observed from afar the troubles in Ireland, the whole Balkan disaster and then Rwanda, it could be hard to see any virtues in monocultural nationalism, even if such a thing were seriously achievable in a globalized world.
Ian 18:26 on 2019-04-14 Permalink
Even the partition of India was meant to reduce conflict between Muslims and Hindus. In moving people from Hindu to Muslim regions there were many brutal attacks and the infamous “death trains”. 2 to 3 million people went missing during resettlement in the Punjab alone…. and before anyone starts in about Muslim violence again, it was Muslims that went missing, killed by Hindus.
Chris 20:56 on 2019-04-14 Permalink
Ian, Hindu ‘cow vigilantes’ often target Muslims. Another example of religious insanity.