More on the St-Denis bike path
The St-Denis bike path is among the hottest potatoes this summer, but I want to quote Timothy Forster’s tweet here: “do these shop owners somehow think that all the CARS on St‑Denis are local shoppers who buy things from them and not just people using it as a mini‑highway to get to the 40?”
DeWolf 10:38 on 2020-08-27 Permalink
One of the businesses that has been loudest in its opposition to the REV is a furniture showroom that absolutely does not rely on people coming by car. After the owner made a big fuss in the media, a former employee posted a response on social media, noting that during her time at the store, nearly all customers had their furniture delivered – after all, who has room for a sectional sofa or eight-seat dining table in their car? And those who did pick up furniture by car were almost always unable to find parking on St-Denis, so they parked on side streets and the staff helped them carry their purchase.
walkerp 11:27 on 2020-08-27 Permalink
Nice one, DeWolf. Thanks for sharing.
The city has a survey about the pedestrianization and Active Safety Corridors or whatever they are called.
Blork 12:01 on 2020-08-27 Permalink
I’m not saying this to be on one side or the other, but there is a flaw in your (and the former employee’s) logic. Just because people had their furniture delivered doesn’t mean they didn’t arrive at the showroom by car. There’s no connection between the two. As you said, nobody’s going to pack a sectional sofa into their car, but that has nothing to do with how they get around while shopping.
Joey 12:13 on 2020-08-27 Permalink
@Blork said. I would further guess that, given there aren’t furniture shops on every corner, that kind of store probably relies on “destination” shoppers coming from other neighbourhoods. Similar to the furniture stores clustered around St.-Laurent and Mont-Royal. Not that this is good eough reason to kibosh a sensible (and, insofar as it was a feature of the PM platform, broadly desired) idea like safe, express bike lanes.
You know what would be great? Good old-fashioned random speed traps. Not phot radar boxes that everyone knows about and slows down for, I mean cops setting up shop for a few hours on residential streets, where speed limits are mere suggestions. A little enforcement could go a long way. The fact that ideas like these, which require our police officers to come up with creative-ish solutions and actually implement them for the greater good, provides a boost to the (IMO sufficiently valid) arguments about systemic racism and discrimination that have led many to conclude we ought defund/dismantle policing. If the cops could be bothered to do small, demonstrable things to make neighbourhoods safe, there would be fewer arguments against ending policing as we know it. Even with progressive elected officials in power, what has changed – big or small – about policing? Sorry for the tangent!
Spi 13:34 on 2020-08-27 Permalink
Something that doesn’t get mentioned nearly enough is that retail/restaurants generally operate on very thin margins <10% (probably less so on big-ticket items like furniture). The point many vendors fail to make eloquently is that you don't need all of your business to evaporate to go under, sometimes it just takes the 15-20% hit to sales that car using client represents to make the business non-viable. There are a multitude of studies that show businesses/streets stay as vibrant or become even more so after such transformations. You're asking them to take a gamble, but the city isn't offering any assurances or protection. We're going to throw a massive wrench in your business model and finances but just trust us it'll be better on the other end.
Frankly, if the city had the courage of their convictions part of the budget for these projects would include a budget for tax relief for business owners that can demonstrate that their sales haven't bounced back to pre-project levels within a year.
Blork 14:25 on 2020-08-27 Permalink
I keep seeing references to studies that show that decreasing cars and increasing bicycles actually helps local businesses. I’d like to see more information on that, because I can’t imagine that is universal. Surely it depends on the nature of the street.
For example, Wellington in Verdun is a busy commercial street, and I’m pretty sure those businesses primarily serve the local neighbourhood. The shops are largely low- and middle-end restaurants and cafes, small food shops, small services, etc. Nobody’s going to cross town or otherwise come from far away to shop on Wellington. It’s for locals, and it’s a narrow street that’s easy to cross, so it’s natural that most of the clients of those businesses are local, and making it easy for them to come by bicycle makes sense and will likely help those businesses.
The same can be said for Mont-Royal. A busy but narrow street that’s easy to cross and has a lot of pedestrian traffic. Most shops are small and serve the local area. Ditto St-Viateur, and many others.
But St-Denis is different. Historically, people came from all over the city and beyond to shop on St-Denis. It’s a wide and busy boulevard that isn’t so easy to cross (the distances between crosswalks can be huge, and jaywalking is dangerous). So it’s always been — and to some extent still is — a “destination” street. You go there either with a specific store in mind (that isn’t available in your neighbourhood) or you go there planning to spend some time strolling and shopping. You can certainly do that by public transit or by bike, but generally such shopping excursions end up with you having a lot of stuff to haul, which can include dishes, or an expresso machine, or a bunch of shoes and clothes, etc. Not stuff you typically can carry on a bike.
Also, most cyclists will use the bike-friendly St-Denis the way many car users do — as a route to elsewhere, not as a place to stop and shop.
So my question is, does that blanket statement about bicycle access being positive for businesses apply universally, across the board? Or does it only apply to certain types of streets? (I suspect it does not apply to St-Denis, but I’m happy to be shown otherwise.)
DeWolf 15:38 on 2020-08-27 Permalink
The REV isn’t taking away parking and it isn’t limiting car access to St-Denis. It will remove a lane of traffic and will include several new mid-block pedestrian crossings. In other words, St-Denis will become less of a highway and a street more similar in atmosphere to Mont-Royal, Wellington or St-Laurent.
DeWolf 15:50 on 2020-08-27 Permalink
The fundamental question that isn’t answered by the anti-REV crowd is this: St-Denis has been in decline for more than 10 years. The status quo isn’t working and it hasn’t been working for years. So what is the solution? Tear down some residential blocks to build big parking lots so it can compete with Dix-30?
The REV will have the effect of calming traffic to make St-Denis actually pleasant to shop on, whether you arrive by car, bike, metro or foot. There will still be just as many places to park, but now there will also be a way for people to get there safely by bike, and everyone can walk between shops without being subjected to the roar of traffic barreling down the street at 60km/h.
Or I guess we could just leave the street as it is and hope that magically its fortunes will change despite all indications to the contrary.
Blork 17:56 on 2020-08-27 Permalink
@DeWolf, if the plan is as you describe, then I’m all for it.
MarcG 18:05 on 2020-08-27 Permalink
There was talk last year of turning Wellington into a one way street with a bikelane, which would be smart, since the (current?/pre-Covid?) configuration is extremely dangerous to bike down and sometimes it’s the only way that makes sense. If it remains a pedestrian street, which I would love but some others would hate, they’ll need to find a way to integrate biking (and goddamn scooters) safely into the mix.
DeWolf 00:23 on 2020-08-28 Permalink
Blork, there’s a very detailed plan of the REV that was presented to the city’s Executive Committee, it has pretty much everything you’d want to know about how it will look:
https://ville.montreal.qc.ca/documents/Adi_Public/CE/CE_DA_ORDI_2020-05-20_08h30_REV_presentation_CE_20200520.pdf?fbclid=IwAR19CnhLtkfGMWhBAT2sCWe2r5N7BjKd38m6VJPPQ8nABJ3VY4E_crI90x4