Yves Boisvert dissects the laïcité law: “Être opposé à la loi 21, c’est donc maintenant être contre « la laïcité » ; et comme le gouvernement Legault, aidé par la droite souverainiste, en a fait un enjeu d’identité nationale, être contre cette définition de laïcité, c’est être contre « la nation québécoise ». Politiquement, c’est un coup de maître.”
Updates from December, 2021 Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts
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Kate
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Kate
Two possible sources of exposure to the Omicron variant have been identified in town.
Update: CTV reports an outbreak at the Lakeshore General but doesn’t mention Omicron.
walker
I assume they had a vaccine requirement at those two places. Worrisome!
Kevin
Went past a gym this morning and nobody exercising had a mask as they walked around and exchanged equipment…
M
Vaccine requirement? Many places I go to do not check those. I asked a cashier at a cafe where I regularly go get coffee if they ever scan VaxiCodes for sit-down meals and she confirmed that they do not, but wished that they would for her own safety. I decided to call the local police station to make a complaint (more for her sake than mine, I’m in an out of that place) and the officer refused to take anything down. He (erroneously) said the requirement didn’t apply to such a place (it does, I had checked). When he asked me to repeat my complaint four times and finally asked me if I was asking about a passport so that I could travel, I knew he was jerking me around.
Tim S.
M: always worth filing a police complaint online, which is pretty easy through the SPVM website. Then it’s in writing, and in my experience someone with a name and email address will respond in writing. They might still try to brush it off, but once you have a name follow-up becomes easier.
Meezly
All the restaurants I’ve dined at have scanned or checked Vaxicodes. Our regular neighbourhood place apologized for scanning ours again as she said that there’s a hefty fine if they’re caught not doing this.
Ian
Everywhere I’ve been not only wants the vaxicode but also photo ID.
Uatu
I’ve even been asked at a food court for the vaxicode and photo ID
DeWolf
The SPVM has an online form to report violations of sanitary restrictions. I can only assume they won’t do anything about it (we’re talking about the SPVM after all) but at least then there will be a written record.
https://spvm.qc.ca/en/Pages/Report-an-event/COVID19–Report-a-situation-online
One of my usual places turned out to be dismissive about vaccine proof — one time the owner said “You don’t need to show me that, I’m not the police” — which of course makes me hesitate to ever eat there again. But 99% of the other spots I go to are quite diligent about scanning the QR code and checking photo ID. That includes coffee shops, bars and restaurants.
JaneyB
Also vaxicode + ID’d at a resto and food court. One resto did nothing but also did not greet or seat us (we left). I will return to the conscientious restaurant and avoid the scofflaw in the future. I’m assuming their behaviours probably extend to other health codes.
GC
I feel like I’ve seen every bit of the spectrum. Some (a lot of) places are very conscientious about checking both the passport and the ID. Some check just the passport. One place I went with coworkers, the owner/waitress just said “I trust you are all vaccinated” and didn’t even wait for a reply. SIGH. We were literally the only customers in there, so I suppose we were not exposing ourselves a big deal. Won’t be going back there any time soon, though.
Kate
I have not been going out much at all, but I appreciate the warning about carrying photo ID in case. Since I don’t have a driver’s licence, I will make sure I’m carrying my health card if I go anywhere.
jeather
I believe they are allowed to accept a picture of your photo id, or at least many places have for me.
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Kate
Double murderer Ugo Fredette has seen his request for a new trial turned down over a point of law, but his ultimate sentence is awaiting a Supreme Court decision on cumulative sentences in the Alexandre Bissonnette case: essentially, how hard can we punish multiple murderers?
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Kate
A man recorded shouting at kids in the metro for wearing masks has been arrested. Sounds like he’ll be charged with disturbing the peace.
n 22:35 on 2021-12-11 Permalink
“La Loi sur la laïcité de l’État n’a pas rendu le Québec plus laïque. Il l’était déjà. Juridiquement. Politiquement. Socialement. C’est-à-dire que l’État ne favorise aucune religion, fonctionne de manière séparée de toute puissance religieuse, bref, est « neutre » sur le plan religieux.”
Ha ha ha ha. No. Also, it made Quebec less secular, I would argue. But just because the priests aren’t running the province any more doesn’t mean that the province is secular and it sure as fuck favours one religion.
ant6n 01:04 on 2021-12-12 Permalink
The Quebecois can be strangely pseudo intelectual without noticing it.
david448 02:53 on 2021-12-12 Permalink
It’s not very complicated in the end. Lots of different people moving to Quebec, and Quebecois want them to assimilate rather than continuing on with their home countries’ culture. What’s really all that controversial about that?
dhomas 07:30 on 2021-12-12 Permalink
@David# That is an oversimplification if I ever heard one. First off, the law is about laïcité. You are doing EXACTLY what Boisvert is accusing the CAQ of doing by conflating laïcité/loi 21 with Quebec culture.
Also, “assimilate” into what? Who gets to decide what “Quebec culture” is? Why is it “speak French, don’t wear hats” (to similarly oversimplify)? For example, Jewish folks have been here since the 1760s (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Montreal). Why wouldn’t their contributions to the fabric of our society and culture be considered part of the “Quebecois culture”? Because they wear kippahs? How long does a distinct culture need to be present in Quebec for it to be considered part of Quebec?
Quebec, as we know it, is a land built on immigration. These people preaching Quebec culture are also the product of immigration, if you go far back enough. If anything, the culture of Quebec IS to be multicultural. This nation was built by immigrants, whether it is the historical French immigrants that gave us the French language; the Irish, Italian, Portuguese, etc. who built much of our infrastructure; the Jews who gave us our iconic Montreal smoked meat and bagels; the (mostly francophone) maghrébins who came more recently to “renflouer” our workforce when we had shortages; and so on. People of many different countries and cultures are here and have been here for a long time. To invalidate their contribution to our culture is not only morally wrong, but, as Boisvert pointed out, legally questionable as well.
jeather 09:14 on 2021-12-12 Permalink
Time to dump that home country (France) culture and go back to the real Quebec culture(s).
Kevin 09:45 on 2021-12-12 Permalink
David
It’s based on three false premises: that muslims, sikhs, and jews are from somewhere else, that wearing a religious symbol is an act of proselytization, and the notion that nobody willingly joins Quebecois culture.
it’s also based on laws from France that treated members of its colonies as second-class citizens and denied them access to the French legal system.
Bills 21 and 96 are supposedly about eliminating diversity. But they will just result in ghettoes, and give people tacit permission to express intolerance and hate.
MBlack 09:58 on 2021-12-12 Permalink
If someone can point out how Bill 21 has benefitted Quebec Society as a whole, I would like to hear it. SInce this Bill has passed, has there been an improvement in their security, safety and well-being of the public? There are many examples of just the opposite, of Quebecers whose lives have been seriously disrupted, but I cannot see any balancing benefit.
Kate 10:43 on 2021-12-12 Permalink
david, what do you think “assimilate” means? Do you think people can really erase their cultural and religious origins on stepping off a boat or a plane? Did they ever? Can they? Should they? And, as others ask above, is Quebec culture really so monolithic and so all‑encompassing that a person would happily give up Islam and their traditions and their food to be baptized and go to Mass and eat tourtière?
Look at yourself. I don’t know you, but you post in English. I am going to assume you’re an anglophone and live here in Montreal. In your terms, isn’t this transgressive in itself? Did you go to Mass this morning?
Generations ago, maybe some people did do this more all-encompassing assimilation. You immigrated, you stayed put. People came from places like Ireland and Italy, China and Poland and Syria and did not go home. But I have great-great-grandparents who came here from Ireland in the 1840s, and neither they nor their children nor their grandchildren ever went back, even for a visit. They spoke English and felt Irish but they stayed put. I am still here, I speak both languages for work, but most of what I read and watch is in English and most of my friendships are conducted in English.
Today, people are not so pinned down. There are immigration requirements, but by and large people can come to Canada and establish residence and then move on, or go back home easily for visits. They’re no longer huddled masses yearning to be free. They can stay in touch over the internet and they can be productive members of society while still also feeling they belong to another culture as well. That’s how it is. Legault still thinks there are these 1840s-style masses that have to be “francisé” and molded into some sort of Trente Arpents peasants. That’s long gone. Long gone. He needs to understand the 21st century and so do you.
Meezly 12:17 on 2021-12-12 Permalink
It’s nice to see a reasoned analysis in La Presse arguing how Bill 21 is a superficial law that doesn’t even uphold secularism in any way.
Reducing a turban or hijab as something that’s strictly religious dismisses what these items of clothing means for an individual – it can be cultural, familial, religious and/or personal. Wearing a cultural garb should not make them less Canadian or Quebecois.
Fatemeh Anvari: “Yes, I am Muslim, but for me, [the hijab] holds other meanings of just my identity and how I’ve chosen to represent myself as a strong person in a world that may not want me to be myself. But it’s still a religious symbol at the end of the day, so that’s why it has a conflict with the law.”
Indigenous peoples have been forced to assimilate in Canada yet immigrants are integrated into society. Assimilation originates from colonization. Although the CAQ encourages immigrants to integrate into Quebec society what Bill 21 is doing is forcing certain groups of immigrants to assimilate whereas other groups of people get to integrate.
Quebec as a province has power over a few things: immigration and education. By adding public schools to the list of government jobs in Bill 21 is quite telling. I wonder if MBC had a big hand in crafting Bill 21, as he’s very clever and good friends with Legault. With Boisvert saying what a masterstroke 21 is, I wouldn’t be surprised if MBC played a big part in it.
Uatu 12:34 on 2021-12-12 Permalink
My folks were a visible minority when they came over in the 60s. My Dad never really learned French and was never assimilated into QC culture. That said he made his contribution to QC society through his work and from all the taxes he paid. And after his death, QC society seems to be still humming along. What’s the big deal?
Meezly 12:39 on 2021-12-12 Permalink
Maybe the big deal is because that was then, and this is now?