Updates from October, 2024 Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts

  • Kate 21:59 on 2024-10-22 Permalink | Reply  

    The Mercier library in Mercier-Hochelaga-Maisonneuve posted an event graphic for a story‑reading event for kids which shows one little girl in hijab alongside others. Like the image at city hall that caused a brief kerfuffle in August, this is being denounced as the invasion of religious belief into public spaces.

    If Quebec were a person, it would need therapy for its weird fixation on religion. Nobody is going to bring back the Grand Noirceur because the city shows pictures of its residents as we actually are. Get a grip.

     

    • SMD 06:56 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      I enjoyed this letter in Le Devoir describing all the ways in which modern Quebec society is a half-finished project: La Révolution tranquille a lancé un marathon dont le coureur n’arrive plus à reprendre son souffle à mi-chemin.

    • Tim S. 08:51 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      I’m not sure about his interpretation. I think it’s more that the energy unleashed by the Quiet Revolution keeps needing to find new outlets/targets.

    • bob 09:50 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      The “weird fixation” has a name – endemic racism.

      Like many revolutions, the Quiet one turned into a palace coup. Some good intentions deposed the old order, then the new order stepped in and deposed the good intentions.

      ” invasion of religious belief into public spaces.” – like the endless parade of crucifixes everywhere you look? Twain – “this is the first time I was ever in a city where you couldn’t throw a brick without breaking a church window.”

    • Ian 15:27 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      That Legault still confuses systematic and systemic as an excuse not to address endemic racism is telling. Good choice of words, bob.

    • Kate 18:03 on 2024-10-24 Permalink

      bob, I’ve seen that Twain quote cited often, but never been able to find out where he wrote it, or said it.

    • MarcG 07:19 on 2024-10-25 Permalink

      From a speech he gave at the Windsor Hotel on December 8, 1881, published in the Saturday NYT on page 2. BAnQ/ProQuest link to image of the article and easier to access text version.

    • Kate 08:56 on 2024-10-25 Permalink

      Thank you, MarcG!

  • Kate 19:25 on 2024-10-22 Permalink | Reply  

    Quebec has put up a survey on the matter of changing the clocks twice a year, but is making no promises that it will act on the result.

     

    • carswell 19:55 on 2024-10-22 Permalink

      Took the survey, whose first question is typically GoQ obtuse (as with road signage, no one has ever accused the government of understanding user interface design). Voted in favour of leaving the winter times (GMT-5) in place year round. When I clicked the button to submit my results, a message appeared saying I had already voted…

      Kate’s link goes to a GoQ page in French with a link to “accéder à la consultation publique“. When I click on that, the survey appears… in English.

      Am predicting the results will be even less reliable than those of most surveys.

    • carswell 20:10 on 2024-10-22 Permalink

      Realized that since my ISP is TekSavvy, “my” server is in Ontario. So I fired up the VPN, selected a server in Montreal, switched browsers (from Opera to Safari) and had another go at it.

      The accéder link still took me to the English survey page (there’s an intervening page, in English, about supporting documents, among other things). I clicked the survey tab. Survey was still in English. Clicked Français at the top of the page. The questions remained in English but the answers were now in French.

      And, again, after submitting my answers, I was told I’d already voted. Buggy much? In any case, not ready for prime time.

    • Kate 20:45 on 2024-10-22 Permalink

      I also saw the “already voted” message and my server is Videotron, which can’t be mistaken for being anywhere else.

      I voted to keep Daylight Time.

    • EmilyG 21:33 on 2024-10-22 Permalink

      The first time I went to that website, it gave me a 502 Bad Gateway message.
      The next time, the website loaded, so I went to the survey and filled out the survey. When I hit the Submit button on the survey, I then got another 502 Bad Gateway page.

      I’m not sure if my survey answers went through. So I’m not sure, if I can get to the survey and fill it out again, if it’d count that I already voted.

    • CE 22:15 on 2024-10-22 Permalink

      I also got the 502 Bad Gateway pages.

    • MarcG 08:14 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      Quebec IT sucks so hard it’s beyond embarassing and actually dangerous (ClicSante I’m looking at you). We need to stop seeing QA testing as an extravagance.

      Regarding DST, doesn’t it make more sense to keep winter time? Otherwise it’s dark when most people wake up this time of year, no? Or does it also mean that it would be light out at 4am in the summer? I find time change so hard to wrangle in my head.

    • DeWolf 08:18 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      Just curious carswell, why do you want to keep winter times? That means the sun will rise at 4am in the summer which is early even for early risers…

    • DeWolf 08:22 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      Permanent winter time:

      July 1 – sunrise 4:10am, sunset 7:47pm
      December 1 – sunrise 7:15am, sunrise 4:12pm

      Permanent summer time:

      July 1 – sunrise 5:10am, sunset 8:47pm
      December 1 – sunrise 8:15am, sunset 5:12pm

    • dhomas 08:25 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      If you think ClicSanté is bad, you obviously haven’t tried using the Régistre Foncier site. It has daily operating hours (!!) and looks like it was designed in 1998 on Geocities. It requires a “manual” to use, supposedly doesn’t work on mobile (it does, but it’s wonky), has a bunch of weird requirements (up until recently, it still listed Adobe Flash), etc. The UX is just plain terrible. Thankfully, nobody outside Quebec needs to use it. I would be embarrassed for our province if I needed to show this to anyone not from here.

    • MarcG 08:36 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      Thanks DeWolf. It’s hard to decide which is more painful: a 4am sunrise in the summer or an extra hour of darkness on already-bleak-AF winter mornings. All I know is that the time change messes with my riddims.

    • walkerp 08:53 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      Permanent summer time, it’s a no-brainer. How nice to be able to leave work/school and it not be dark.

    • Tim S. 08:59 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      I also voted for winter time. My logic is that as someone who gets up between 7-7:30 most mornings, the difference between a 4:10AM and 5:10AM sunrise in summer isn’t a huge difference to my life (either way I should get thicker curtains), but the difference between a 7:15 and 8:15 sunrise in winter is pretty significant and will lead to a dark morning commute, while I suspect even with summer hours the evening commute would be dark no matter what.

      Thanks for looking up the hours, DeWolf. My contribution, for those who haven’t yet taken the survey, is that Montreal is at the 73rd meridian.

    • jeather 09:17 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      I definitely prefer sunrise at 5 and sunset at 9 — a long summer night is lovely! My schedule is 9-5, so summer time in the winter means that it is only a brief period around the solstice where the evening commute is dark, and the morning commute never. Otherwise it’s from around Nov 1 to end of Feb (I’m assigning it as dark if sunset is before 5:30 and sunrise 8:30.)

      The November wouldn’t change much, as it abruptly goes from a 5:40 sunset to a 4:40 one, but the other would move to around Jan 10.

    • MarcG 10:07 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      Given that the main argument for eliminating the time change is improving population health, surely the geeks have done studies and already concluded which solutions provides the greatest benefit? Who cares what Jean Public thinks and feels about it? Although I guess if we can apply a libertarian “you do you” policy to our pandemic response we could even do the same here: choose whichever time feels right to you.

    • Joey 10:14 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      Permanent wintertime IMO – yes, it’s awful to leave the house when it’s dark in winter, but it’s worse to leave work at 5pm and have it be pitch black. But, more importantly, the idea of the latest summer sunset being just before 8pm is a real bummer.

      Anyway, I’m glad the government is purportedly interested in this, but it feels like the worst possible outcome would be one where Quebec acts alone, meaning for half the year we will be out of sync with the rest of the eastern time zone. This is really the kind of decision that should be made at, like, a continental level.

    • Joey 10:17 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      (Also 4:10 am sunrise is too early.)

    • MarcG 10:27 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      Joey, I hope you didn’t submit your vote yet because it sounds like you prefer permanent summer time.

    • carswell 11:08 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      @DeWolf Though something of a night owl these days, I’m also an early riser, typically getting out of bed between 5 and 5:30 and often waking up before that (growing old is no fun), and I find two or three hours of pitch darkness hard to take. If daylight savings time is in effect year round, I’d be going to and returning from the gym before dawn. That’s tough. Winter is already gloomy and depressing enough as is.

      Sun rising at 4 a.m. at midsummer isn’t an issue as far as I’m concerned. Blackout curtains and sleep masks are easy solutions for those who are sensitive.

      What we’re calling winter time in this thread is actually standard time. And standard time year round partially alleviates that long darkness at the start of the day when one often needs a boost to get going. And while it does, at winter solstice, mean the 9-to-5ers commute home after sunset, night really doesn’t fall until about an hour afterwards, giving commuters at least a parting kiss of daylight.

      My preferred solution is never mentioned in these discussions and, of course, wasn’t an option in the survey: we permanently move the clock ahead (from standard time) or back (from daylight savings time) a half-hour instead of an hour.

    • jeather 11:27 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      I am sympathetic to your schedule woes, but surely the plan should be based on people going to work or school, primarily, not whether more people go to the gym before or after work.

    • carswell 11:39 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      I used the gym as an example, jeather. Lots of people are up between 5 and 6 and leave for work or school well before permanent daylight savings time midwinter sunrise. I suspect that, from a psychological standpoint, having daylight early in the day is better than having it at the end, though I also endorse MarcG’s questioning why we aren’t looking at the data. Along those lines, at the gym in the gloom this morning, I wondered whether traffic accidents, suicide rates, etc. were higher under one of the scenarios. Data like that would make the decision for me. And there has to be data, as there are states and provinces and probably countries that don’t change time seasonally.

    • Kate 11:46 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      I admit it’s my instinctive reaction to vote for summer time, but we do need the data.

      When are most people out, moving around, relative to light levels? What specialty would know most about this? Public health?

    • jeather 11:54 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      Yes, lots of people are up early; on the other hand, lots of other people are at work or school past 4, often the same people. Are you more likely to get in an accident before work when it’s dark, or after work when it’s dark? I agree we need data here, because we’re all arguing preferences.

    • MarcG 12:39 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      According to this video from Mount Sinai, sleep researchers advocate for permanent standard time (winter) and capitalist think-tanks and Jean Public prefer permanent daylight savings time (summer).

    • carswell 12:41 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      Doing some googling. Most articles in mainstream media (Washington Post, CNN, etc.) appear to claim that permanent standard time is better than permanent daylight savings, often citing sleep experts.

      Save Standard Time (and, yes, with a name like that they’re prejudiced) is so far the only source I’ve found with links to a number of articles, including in scientific journals. Representative or cherry-picked? Don’t know enough to say.
      https://savestandardtime.com/sources/

    • carswell 12:48 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      ASSM (American Academy of Sleep Medicine) experts advocate for permanent standard time ahead of “fall back”
      https://aasm.org/aasm-experts-advocate-for-permanent-standard-time-ahead-of-fall-back/

      Two of the more interesting points:

      “The U.S. has tried permanent daylight saving time before, and the results were disastrous. Amid a nationwide energy crisis, the U.S. attempted to adopt permanent daylight saving time in 1973, when President Nixon signed a bill into law aimed at reducing the nation’s energy consumption. During the first winter, complaints about prolonged darkness in the morning were rampant. Parents also had safety concerns because their children had to walk to school or wait for the bus in the dark. While the daylight saving time experiment was intended to last two years, it was so unpopular that Congress reverted the nation to standard time in the fall of 1974 after only 8 months.

      “Seasonal time changes are dangerous overall. Misalignment caused by seasonal time changes has been linked to dangerous health and safety consequences, including an increased risk of stroke and hospital admissions, and increased production of inflammatory markers, one of the body’s responses to stress. Additional risks include increased medical errors, cardiovascular events and mood disturbances. One study found a reduction in the rate of cardiovascular events during standard time in particular, suggesting that the chronic effects of daylight saving time may lead to a higher risk of adverse health problems when compared with standard time.”

    • MarcG 12:51 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      Interesting to note that the US tried permanent DST in 1974 but quickly reverted.

    • carswell 12:54 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      And there is, of course, a Wikipedia article, with citations, about the issue (in the US):
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_time_observation_in_the_United_States

      This paragraph stood out for me, not that I’d advocate taking religious preferences into account in this case: “The idea of staying on Daylight Saving Time during winter months is opposed by certain religious communities, such as Orthodox Jews, whose daily prayers and other customs are synchronized with times of sunrise and sunset.”

    • Nicholas 13:41 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      This comment section is a great example of why nothing will change. People have very strong personal preferences, and many will prefer the status quo towards the option they dislike more. We could solve much of these problems if we just shifted most activities during part of the year: for example, we could keep permanent summer time, but then have schools start an hour later from Halloween to March break, push government office start time to 9:30, etc. (We could move by 15 minute increments if we really wanted.) So we’re not switching the time, but when we do things. People who wanted to do things at other times still could. But I could see us getting similar complaints. People love to have tightly regimented schedules, especially morning people, and they run the world, so I don’t see this happening.

      I should add that people nearer the poles may have sunrise at 11 and sunset at 3 (or worse), and somehow they survive without all the kids getting killed walking to or from school, without everyone having depression. Is it worse there than here? Possibly. But there are ways to adapt, and maybe we need to do more of that. On the margins we can adjust, but I don’t think it makes a huge difference which way we do it, but people have such strong opinions that we’ll never make a majority happy. So expect this to die, like they all do, because no proposal, summer or winter time, is preferred to the status quo.

    • jeather 13:42 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      A time zone is quite wide, so I would also wonder if there are studies that show differences if you are in the eastern vs western half.

      And of course there’s the suffering of the poor pets whose food times are moved by an hour twice a year.

    • carswell 13:47 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      So many of these studies, articles and reports are in reference to the continental US. In Canada, lying north of the border, the seasonal effects are exaggerated; it’s light out longer here in the summer and dark longer in the winter. Does that affect their relevance to us? And, if so, how?

      An interesting tidbit gleaned from an Ontario Tech University article: “…in November 2020, the Province of Ontario passed legislation to make daylight saving time permanent. The legislation even has royal assent. But it won’t come into force unless Quebec and New York State also make the same change.”

    • jeather 13:59 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      A time zone is quite wide, so I would also wonder if there are studies that show differences if you are in the eastern vs western half.

      And of course there’s the suffering of the poor pets whose food times are moved by an hour twice a year.

    • Kate 14:02 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      jeather, I remember a very odd theory getting media mentions, but it was some time ago and I can’t think how to search for it. The upshot was that people on one side of a time zone prospered more than those on the other, because they were awake for somewhat more daylight, I think. The comparison made was between Toronto (fine upstanding workers) and Montreal (layabout aesthetes) or something along those lines.

      I swear I’m not making this up.

      Anyway, I don’t really care whether they fix on EST or EDT. Pick one and stick with it. The consequences of changing the clocks, as carswell summarizes, are far worse than people feeling a little out of sorts for a day or two.

    • jeather 14:46 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      I will admit that despite knowing that spring ahead is terrible wrt accidents I would prefer it than permanent winter time.

      Note that we’ve over time been increasing the part of the year that is summer time (once in the 80s, once in the 2000s) and there hasn’t been significant pushback, so despite the failed 1974 experiment, we seem happy to let it creep up on us.

    • Tee Owe 15:38 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      Can’t help remarking – it gets darker in winter, more so in northern latitudes, it gets lighter in summer, also more so in northern latitudes- we know this, what’s the big deal? Set your clock by what you want to do

    • Tim S. 17:45 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      I would argue that a population-wide survey IS data, and I welcome the government seeking input about an issue that affects all of us directly. Doesn’t mean we can’t individually look up the studies before casting our ‘vote’

    • Kate 23:26 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

      I believe this is the theory I remembered reading about.

    • MarcG 08:01 on 2024-10-24 Permalink

      The CAQ has already been given a mandate to govern, why do they need to ask us how to do their job? Read the research, review the stats on the population, consult with people who know shit, and make the smart decision. This strikes me as just more populist nonsense. But I also don’t trust politicians not to overweigh the input of business leaders and choose whatever The Economy prefers, public health be damned, so.

  • Kate 19:24 on 2024-10-22 Permalink | Reply  

    CBC’s Antoni Nerestant zeroes in on the differences between the report on Bedford School and what some media have been saying, and it’s as I thought: some media commentators want it to be a story about failed secularism, but religious aspects are not the explanation.

     

    • Kate 09:39 on 2024-10-22 Permalink | Reply  

      The cull of the numerous deer in Michel‑Chartrand park has begun in Longueuil.

       

      • MarcG 09:58 on 2024-10-22 Permalink

        Livestream here

      • walkerp 11:09 on 2024-10-22 Permalink

        Yikes, a livestream!!! Not going to click on that.

      • Kate 11:59 on 2024-10-22 Permalink

        Me neither!

      • carswell 12:33 on 2024-10-22 Permalink

        Ha! Not the municipal snuff video I was expecting, MarcG. Thank dog. Though, since it’s YouTube, the actual clip was preceded by a ad and that was for a horror flic set in the country so I wasn’t too sure at first. (On second try, the ad was pushing the new Samsung Galaxy.)

      • Uatu 13:47 on 2024-10-22 Permalink

        Livestream? Yikes! I’m afraid they might ask “would you like to know more?”lol

      • EmilyG 17:07 on 2024-10-22 Permalink

        Nicely played, MarcG.
        I actually quite enjoyed that.

      • Janet 23:26 on 2024-10-22 Permalink

        ROFL

      • daniel 09:34 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

        Well, that’s what I get for clicking on the livestream

      • Kate 14:15 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

        MarcG, you may just have won Commenter of the Year.

      • MarcG 14:47 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

        I’ve spent years here trying to establish myself as someone with reliable links simply in order to pull this off.

    • Kate 08:15 on 2024-10-22 Permalink | Reply  

      Designboom has a discussion and some very nice photos of the sculpture installed at Place des Arts, SpY’s steel and glass ORB.

       

      • Kate 08:10 on 2024-10-22 Permalink | Reply  

        Is it such a mystery why young teenagers have been so easily recruited to be foot soldiers for gangs? Families are living on a shoestring. If a kid knows their parents can’t pay the rent or can’t buy enough food, or if they want money for themselves, and someone’s dangling $1500 for a quick arson, is it so hard to see why this would attract a kid?

         

        • SMD 08:43 on 2024-10-22 Permalink

          Exactly. I shouted out loud when CBC Radio covered this story and concluded with the police chief saying he needed more money. Spend it on improving the material conditions of the poor and marginalized, not their repression!

        • bob 09:55 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

          Do you think it is more likely that these kids are buying groceries or buying shoes?

        • Kate 14:07 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

          If their parents can’t afford to buy them shoes…

      • Kate 08:03 on 2024-10-22 Permalink | Reply  

        After three vehicle arsons and gunshots on their block, neighbours are unsettled by what seems to be a gang war come to roost on their quiet residential block facing a Cartierville park.

         

        • Kate 07:12 on 2024-10-22 Permalink | Reply  

          Protesters forced the closure of the Jacques-Cartier bridge in both directions as rush hour began, Tuesday morning. TVA says they’re ecologists.

          Update: The bridge reopened, traffic resumed around midday and the protesters were arrested.

           

          • MarcG 07:51 on 2024-10-22 Permalink

            Facebook post from the Collectif Antigone, one of the groups involved.

          • Kate 08:15 on 2024-10-22 Permalink

            Thank you, MarcG.

          • MarcG 08:07 on 2024-10-23 Permalink

            I heard some radio coverage on CBC and noted that they never mentioned that there were organizations behind the action, always referring to “2 individuals climbed the bridge”, in one instance not even mentioning their purpose, and in another, using dismissive vocal tones to say “against fossil fuels” like it was childish and pointless. I don’t often yell at the radio alone in a car.

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