Duluth beside Jeanne-Mance park to be greened
Benches and tables will be installed along Duluth Street beside Jeanne‑Mance Park, which is to be eventually linked up with the garden of Hôtel‑Dieu that lies behind that stone wall and gate you can see in the photo. Some installations explaining the history will also be put up.
Spi 09:37 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
Hate to be a cynic but what are the odds that the space just gets completely taken over by shelter residents at hotel-dieu? 50-50?
shawn 09:43 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
Is there a shelter there? I had no idea.
Kate 10:11 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
Here’s a piece from almost a year ago about neighbourhood troubles with shelter denizens.
shawn 10:57 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
Right. In fact, I just cycled by and did notice that, for the first time. Thanks.
DeWolf 11:52 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
Shelter residents haven’t taken over Jeanne-Mance, so what would make this patch of asphalt more attractive than the green lawns right next to it?
Joey 12:05 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
That drawing, of the “best case scenario” type common to these things, is meant to inspire people to sit there? Eesh.
walkerp 12:19 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
This is just temporary before they turn that street basically into part of Jeanne-Mance park, no?
Spi, I would say the odds are about zero.
Joey 13:26 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
@walkerp ok fine, but why not just leave it as is until the bigger project is ready to go (also, that wall poses a significant obstacle to the borough’s vision, IMO)? Time and money are not infinite, surely there are more pressing things that could be done in the meantime. It kinda feels like they just wanted to justify shutting down the street to traffic more than anything.
Joey 13:26 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
For example, they could have instead delivered on the apparent commitment to create a temporary fenced dog park…
Ian 13:52 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
Let’s be honest here, shutting down streets is very low-hanging fruit as far as urban projects go – inexpensive, completely within the urban planning vision, quick to enact, and extending a popular park isn’t going to get much pushback. At least it’s not a project that will only benefit well-heeled yuppies with friends on council like shutting down Remembrance. Besides, as Luc Rabouin gleefully points out, they don’t waste time and money on studies so shutting down a street to traffic is right in his wheelhouse.
Kate 14:54 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
Ian, the closest thing to this project in recent history was also in the Plateau, under Projet, when they decided to unite the two halves of Baldwin Park by greening over two blocks of Marie‑Anne. It caused a lot of ruckus at the time because some folks in the area resisted losing the parking spaces. But they did it anyway.
Joey 15:06 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
@Ian just to be clear, I’m not opposed to the long-term plan to make that stretch of Duluth part of the park – it’s the interim ‘plan’ to do architectural renderings of where some picnic tables will go that, I suspect, took a lot more time and money than it should have that seems nutso…
shawn 15:26 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
I’m not convinced closing off that section to Duluth to vehicles – taking pressure of Pine and Mont-Royal – is even necessary. It’s not like that area wants for greenspace.
shawn 15:36 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
I’m not convinced shutting the one vehicular street between Pine and always-congested Mount Royal Avenues is necessary. There’s an abundance of greenspace in that area and it seems wise to maintain give drivers a 3rd option.
DeWolf 16:20 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
So let me get this straight. Based on this comment thread and some of the quotes in the Metro article, the concerns about closing this stretch of Duluth and eventually converting it into green space are the following:
There is already too much green space in the area
Homeless people will use the space previously occupied by cars
The space will not be fenced off and dedicated exclusively to dogs
The park is too popular and lively, and this will only increase its popularity and liveliness
Drivers will no longer have easy, high-speed access to the congested heart of the Plateau
The city employs people to make renderings of their officially gazetted plans
Any other complaints?
Blork 16:47 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
The illustration is pretty uninspiring, but the article says that the transformation will take place in phases, and this looks like a picture of just the first phase.
That said, I hope they keep a bike path, although that isn’t necessarily pedestrian-friendly as it means a strip of down-hill bike path (read: fast-moving bikes) cutting through an area where everyone is sniffing the flowers and being green and all that. Guaranteed hazard for pedestrians.
I don’t think that strip of Duluth gets much car traffic, but for those evil subhumans who dare to drive in that area it will mean a much longer route for them to get from Parc to lower Duluth and environs. Expect to hear about it. More cars on St-Laurent, St-Urbain, etc. and higher taxi and Uber fares for people who live on or around that part of Esplanade.
DeWolf 17:16 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
Yes, according to Alex Norris, there will be a bike path (which will also provide access for emergency vehicles).
And the dog park is coming, it’s part of the city’s plans to revamp Jeanne-Mance that were announced a few months ago.
mb 17:24 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
It’s kind of an obvious thing to do on Duluth, but I’m dreaming of seeing it on Parc between Mont-Royal and Pine! That would be ambitious!
j 17:36 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
Don’t think that the new fenced dog park is scheduled to come online for another 5-10 years if I remember the presentation correctly. I have not had a dog in a while, but I did notice that the sign designating the unfenced, time-limited dog park area opposite the football field is no longer there. So is there still a dog park in that park?
Chris 18:38 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
>It kinda feels like they just wanted to justify shutting down the street to traffic more than anything.
Yes, great!
>I’m not convinced closing off that section to Duluth to vehicles – taking pressure of Pine and Mont-Royal – is even necessary.
It prevents right hooks for cyclists going north on the Parc bike path, which is a big win.
>That said, I hope they keep a bike path, although that isn’t necessarily pedestrian-friendly as it means a strip of down-hill bike path (read: fast-moving bikes)
It’s more pedestrian-friendly than the cars that currently drive fast there.
Pedestrians have sidewalks on both sides of almost every street. Cyclists have very little space allocated to them comparatively.
carswell 19:09 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
I’m with you, mb. Joining Mount Royal and Jeanne-Mance parks would be such an improvement, aesthetically and environmentally. If it were up to me, a Park Avenue tunnel running from just north of Pine to just south of Mont-Royal would have been built years ago.
walkerp 20:39 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
With you, Dewolf. Seems like a cheap and fast approach to use the space in the interim.
carswell, I love the tunnel idea. The CAQ should take the Quebec City tunnel money and use it for the new Park Ave. tunnel.
DeWolf 21:04 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
I’ve definitely thought about a tunnel before, but I wonder if there isn’t a better, cheaper and less environmentally destructive way to do it, since tunnels use an enormous amount of concrete and require tons of maintenance. How about two lanes of vehicular traffic on each side, with a tramway or BRT in the middle, separated by generous medians with trees and lots of other greenery? Certainly eliminate the spur that leads to Côte-Sainte-Catherine and find a better configuration for the intersection at Mont-Royal. Maybe a Dutch-style roundabout?
Blork 21:34 on 2023-06-15 Permalink
>>That said, I hope they keep a bike path, although that isn’t necessarily pedestrian-friendly as it means a strip of down-hill bike path (read: fast-moving bikes)
>It’s more pedestrian-friendly than the cars that currently drive fast there.
Not necessarily. As a street, it does not have pedestrians wandering all over it, obliviously. Make it a green space with a bike path right down the middle and you now have a place that’s full of people wandering around, at least half of whom will be oblivious to the bike path.
This isn’t me arguing in favour of cars. This is me reporting directly on the extent to which pedestrians are oblivious to moving bicycles. I say this as a cyclist who has many times had to dodge pedestrians who step right onto bike paths without even looking. Grown adults are as oblivious as children when there is only a bike path.
Chris 19:35 on 2023-06-16 Permalink
Good points Blork. Not sure it could be quantified numerically, but I’d still rather have 5 pedestrians hit by a bike than 1 pedestrian hit by a car, that is to say: the injury of a bike collision will generally be lesser than the injury of a car collision, so even with more bike collision, it’s probably still a net win for society.