Montreal City Weblog

Kate 09:13 on 2024-05-28 Permalink Reply  

• Nicholas 13:21 on 2024-05-28 Permalink

  I’m there fairly often and I’ve never seen a cop there, and it’s very surprising that this is #1. It’s a small, unremarkable intersection, and people jaywalk there at similar rates to most of the other lights on Mont-Royal.

• Ian 14:09 on 2024-05-28 Permalink

  If cops wanted to cash in pretty much any intersection on Ste Kitty would be a gold mine for pedestrian tickets, and it’s been like that for decades.

• CE 15:03 on 2024-05-28 Permalink

  I find people are waiting at red lights at the smaller intersections on Ste-Catherine much more than they used. Sometimes I have to walk through the crowd of people pointlessly waiting at an empty intersection to walk across (even more confounding in the winter). I just assume they’re tourists from Toronto.

• DeWolf 17:35 on 2024-05-28 Permalink

  I have the same experience as CE and I’ve wondered about it. If I recall correctly there have been some periodic jaywalking crackdowns over the years and these seem to have had an effect. But it’s also useful to remember that because of immigration, migration from other provinces and out-migration from Montreal to the ROQ and ROC, a very significant percentage of the population wasn’t living here 10 or 15 years ago, and so it’s possible the jaywalking culture has declined with the onset of more rule-abiding people from elsewhere.

  Just a theory. Maybe I’m completely wrong.

• Kate 09:41 on 2024-05-29 Permalink

  CE, DeWolf: Yes, I’ve noticed the same thing downtown. I assumed it might be a lot of students from elsewhere, plus the chilling effect of crackdowns. Up here in Villeray, at least on the minor streets, pedestrians are much more likely to take the red light as a suggestion, and if there’s no traffic, they mostly cross.

  When I first lived in this area there was one traffic light on Jarry between St‑Laurent and St‑Denis and drivers really zoomed. Now there are three, all on side streets, and you can’t expect pedestrians to stand there like mindless automatons when there’s no north‑south traffic in sight.

• Tee Owe 12:01 on 2024-05-29 Permalink

  Anecdote – I spent 6 months in Munich in the 90’s during which I had a visitor from Canada who was incredulous that I stood at a red light late at night with no traffic – but that was how they did it and I had adapted. Secondary anecdote, on return to Montreal I got a ticket for jaywalking on Sherbrooke – boy was I incredulous!

• Ian 12:14 on 2024-05-29 Permalink

  I mean not no, as a pedestrian and cyclist I wouldn’t think twice about just going if I didn’t see anything coming … but if cars/trucks do it? Uh oh. It’s like people that drive over 30 in a school zone super early in the morning when there’s no kids around are still looked at as thoughtless monsters. Bicyclists? Whatever, Idaho stop, suckahs, look where you’re going, pedestrian. Even electric bikes and scooters. Yes, I know that if a car hits someone they will cause way more injuries but the excuse that “there’s nobody there” doesn’t fly for drivers… Even the overwhelmingly vast majority of drivers, personal or professional agree it should be like this.

  There’s a weird disconnect there.

  As far as pedestrians on Ste Kitty goes, I’ve noticed less foot traffic downtown over the years in general. Perpetual rolling contruction zones, covid closures, downtown being less of a “destination”, and the general unpleasantness of the area all contribute, I suspect.

• Ian 12:15 on 2024-05-29 Permalink

  Germany is definitely more law-abiding about jaywalking. It’s still considered rude to jaywalk where children might see you.

• CE 13:12 on 2024-05-29 Permalink

  You can’t really make the comparison with cars. Beyond a car being much, much more dangerous if it hits someone, a driver in a car is lower to the ground and usually set back at least a metre from the front of the car. They just don’t have the same visibility as a pedestrian or a cyclist. The rules we have for the streets were designed for drivers (and with good reason) and have been applied to other users without really thinking of how much differently they use the roads.

• Ian 20:19 on 2024-05-29 Permalink

  Ok so since visibility is better for trucks and SUVs the rule shouldnt apply to them. Good logic.

• Ian 21:05 on 2024-05-29 Permalink

  Considering the majority of traffic accidents killing pedestrians and bicyclists seem to be trucks, well…

• CE 21:20 on 2024-05-29 Permalink

  Visibility for trucks and SUVs is also worse than the visibility that pedestrians and cyclists have and then even more dangerous if those users (as well as other drivers) if they hit someone.

• Ian 22:23 on 2024-05-29 Permalink

  Oh? I thought you said cars had poor visibility becasue they are lower to the ground? Which is it?
  If there is nobody around, why does a pedestrian or bicyclist have free license to do whatever they feel like it, but drivers don’t?

  I live in Mile End, there are lots of crazy drivers around and I mostly walk everywhere, it’s the whole point of paying downtown rents. The potential for injury alone makes me extra-cautious as a pedestrian, I don’t assume anyone has noticed me if I feel like jaywalking. If you really think that as a pedestrian you have some magic 8 ball that tells you when you’re safe to jaywalk if there’s any kind of traffic around, you’re a dope.

  That said, all I’m getting at here is that everyone should follow the rules of the road, even when they don’t seem convenient. It’s a simple precaution that costs seconds of your life to follow consistently regardless of how you get around.

• CE 07:43 on 2024-05-30 Permalink

  It’s multiple factors with cars and trucks. When they’re low to the ground, some types of visibility are difficult. When they’re high up, drivers can see farther but can’t see things closer to the truck and both car and truck drivers are usually seated a good metre away from the crossing. The fact is, pedestrians have full visibility around them, and cyclists have much better visibility of their surroundings than drivers.

  I’m not saying they should be able to do whatever they want but if a cyclist or pedestrian arrives at a red light and observes that there is no traffic (which is much easier for them to do because of their better visibility and the fact that cars are larger and make sounds) then I think they should be free to cross. Drivers should not be given this ability for the reasons given above and because, if they make a mistake, they can easily kill someone. If there were no cars on the road, traffic lights wouldn’t have to exist (at least not in their current form).

  The rules of the road were created for drivers, then applied to all other users. I personally don’t expect people to follow them when they don’t make sense.

• Ian 18:08 on 2024-05-30 Permalink

  Ok so breaking laws is ok if they inconvenience and you are pretty sure you’re too smart to be constrained by the law. Good to know. /s

  It’s just rationalization of one rule for thee, another for me.

• CE 18:26 on 2024-05-30 Permalink

  So you’ve never once jaywalked? Every single time you’ve pulled up to a stop sign on a bicycle, you came to a complete stop and put a foot on the ground before starting again?

  Most laws exist for a reason and breaking them can have very negative consequences. Laws that don’t make sense, should be changed because people are just going to break them which legitimizes breaking the law in general. I’m not saying people should walk or bike across any intersection whenever they want but shouldn’t be expected to wait (while walking) or come to a complete stop (when cycling) when the coast is definitely clear. Other places have changed these laws and I think we should too.

• Ian 23:22 on 2024-05-30 Permalink

  Oh, I break all kinds of laws. I just don’t think I’m somehow exempt from them because I think I’m somehow superior. That said, I don’t blow through stop signs on a bike or in a car, and I do make a point of looking both ways before I cross a street. If I got nailed for jaywalking or biking incorrectly, I wouldn’t think I was somehow wronged, either. I wouldn’t blow a light in a car because yeah, I don’t want to run someone over.

  I know what you’re saying, but I see those 20 year old dopes riding no hands at night checking their phones and I bet they think they aren’t “really” doing anything wrong. Heck, I had a friend that jaywalked drunk right in front of all of us on Parc one night and she got run over by an old lady off her meds blowing a light. It’s amazing how much blood there is from a head injury.

  ‘Sayin. Even laws that “don’t make sense” have a point and maybe it’s not for us to decide individually at our convenience.

• CE 07:00 on 2024-05-31 Permalink

  I think we’re more or less in agreement here. I’d just like to see some laws changed to give more flexibility to different users of the road.