Montreal City Weblog

Kate 19:31 on 2019-04-10 Permalink Reply  

• Chris 21:40 on 2019-04-10 Permalink

  Facebook fake news strikes again! 🙁

  I hadn’t noticed that it was Adil Charkaoui who organized that protest. That’s fuel for the fire too. After reading his whole Wikipedia bio, I don’t think he’s the kind of person the anti-Bill 21 lobby should want heading their protests.

• david100 03:55 on 2019-04-11 Permalink

  I really wonder what the internet is doing to us, in terms of segmenting our information sources. So, I read only one thing about this, which was this article: https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5091277

  Basically, I already think that religion is insane, and that Muslim religion is even more insane than most others – mostly because of the terrorism, crazy conspiracy theories that control arab news, and most of all the weird ways they restrict women and girls. But I’d probably be a lot more chill – I remember once being much more chill – if pretty much every piece of information I got didn’t reinforce my view.

  These algorithms aren’t necessarily serving us badly – I’ll never be sympathetic to the muslims or christians or anyone, never, when it comes to some issues – but it’s pretty odd that the only way I learned about this protest was through some article that explained it in a way that completely aligns with my view, and underlines that it’s run by a guy that – I believe – shouldn’t even be in this country, let alone pretending to be a human rights guy.

• Hamza 04:27 on 2019-04-11 Permalink

  Even if I was to go out on a limb and say that ppl like david100 aren’t full-on bigots, the fact that there are so many folks entitled enough to spew the ‘HURRDURR MOSLEMS ARE TERRORISTS’ level of bullshit less than a month after Christchurch and in the very real and still-present shadow of Quebec City *and still expect to be taken seriously* reveals the disgusting level of hate, prejudice and fantasy that the CAQ folks thrive in every day.

  You are not the enlightened mainstream – you’re wrong. You’re malicious. And this country is better despite you, not because of you.

• qatzelok 10:17 on 2019-04-11 Permalink

  @david100: I agree that religion is insane, but disagree that Islam is any more insane than any other. It just appears to be more insane because Islam is actually practiced in a lot of societies from where we get immigration and where our mining companies savagely exploit resources.

  The reason that “religion” is more practiced in thise places is because the level of social desperation and misery leads them to follow mythology, since reality has proven to be so awful for them. This is not something to celebrate – the ignorance and superstition that is partially a result of rich nations’ predation on defenseless other countries.

• dwgs 10:21 on 2019-04-11 Permalink

  Damn, I’m in full agreement with qatzelok. Whaddayknow?

• Chris 11:31 on 2019-04-11 Permalink

  david100, religion is of course nonsense, but it doesn’t follow that we should ‘never be sympathetic to the muslims or christians’. They are the victims of religion, the vast majority being brainwashed since birth. The majority are just regular decent people. Don’t confuse human beings (Muslims) with ideology (Islam). People are more than one ideology. Thankfully, most Muslims ignore the worst of the garbage in Islam.

  That CBC article is a great read though, I encourage everyone to read it.

• Meezly 15:59 on 2019-04-11 Permalink

  People are not an ideology, but interestingly, those who wield power tend to be the ones who uphold and force an ideology upon the people.

  I’m an atheist who also views religion as a form of insanity, but from a scientific viewpoint, also understand that human beings are hard-wired for religiosity. I believe that an ideal secular society should be one of neutrality and tolerance. It’s hard, but I try not to view religious people as victims – it’s as condescending as a religious person feeling superior to the non-believer, and I’d rather not sink to that mindset!

  Bill 21 kind of scares me – it does not support the idea of religious neutrality at all. It’s designed to specifically target Muslims and those who are visibly “other” in Quebec society. It gives ill-founded power to racists who think they can pull a hijab off someone’s head simply because they feel this law supports their right to do so.

  IMHO, Islam seems more insane only by matter of degrees. If you take away its ideological wrapping, the heart of its religious teachings is as spiritual and meaningful as any other major religion. Since the Crusades, the thing with Islam is that it continued to grow as a fascist theocracy, taking over countries by violent aggression while the RCC never seized such power and got splintered off by other Christian branches. Also, “Christian nations” never had to suffer from decades of US foreign policy during the 20th century, which likely gave rise to Islamic extremism.

  The ex-Muslims who see the hijab as a symbol of oppression, it’s not just the religion but also their history. It’s a very complicated relationship they have with their culture, and us Westerners who have the privilege of distinguishing ourselves as individuals free from the trappings of ideology, pass our judgements and view ourselves as ‘superior’ to someone who has willingly chosen to adhere to her beliefs and wear her hijab (that’s can’t really ‘her’ choice, she must be brainwashed by her religion/ideology).

  For ex-Muslims who support Bill 21, does that mean that Sikhs who wish to work in the public sector must forego their turban and cut their long hair? Or Jews must take off their kippahs? Is this law justified because turbans and kippahs carry the same weight of oppression? Because if it’s symbols of patriarchal oppression, we might as well ban stiletto heels and neckties as well. This law feels like such a slippery slope.

  For a society to be truly neutral, a citizen should have the right to maintain or renounce their faith, and not be punished for either one.

• Kevin 22:16 on 2019-04-11 Permalink

  Quebecers are not aware that there are many religions that are Islamic, just like there are many religions that are Christian.

• Kate 08:22 on 2019-04-12 Permalink

  You guys, you think “religion” is just a set of irrational ideas in one person’s head. You leave out the huge community-sustaining effect of a shared belief, because where you live, religion has dwindled to the point where it really is only a set of ideas in a single person. In other places it’s not, and refusing to see this side of religion clouds your rationality.

  Kevin: yes, but that doesn’t stop the usual squabbling among Shias, Sunnis, Ismailis, Ahmadiyyas and the general dogpiling on Bahaism, which I guess is no longer Islam but certainly branched off from it.

• Kevin 19:00 on 2019-04-12 Permalink

  Kate
  Nah, but when you have people saying Islam is bad they are completely ignoring the larger picture, which you pointed out

• ant6n 02:11 on 2019-04-13 Permalink

  Religion is mostly culture. Just like the atheism and Religion bashing displayed here is a kind of culture.