Montreal City Weblog

Kate 08:01 on 2019-08-07 Permalink Reply  

• Joey 08:08 on 2019-08-07 Permalink

  I rode one earlier this summer in the U.S. It was kind of thrilling, possibly because I felt so unsteady. It did, however, reduce a 12-minute walk by about 70%.

  I am not sure this blog’s comment section is ready for the arrival of these things 😉

• Chris 08:25 on 2019-08-07 Permalink

  There’s starting to be more data coming out of the US and it seems most trips are indeed replacing walking, not driving. That’s disappointing, but it’s early still.

• Michael Black 08:52 on 2019-08-07 Permalink

  Again, the primary point of public transit should be for people who need it, getting rid of cars is only secondary.

  I don’t drive, I don’t take taxis, I don’t ask people for rides.

  If we get a little boost, that’s a good thing. Maybe it helps people going without cars.

  I would point out that I do take the bus every so often, figure that will become more common since I turn 60 in October. You can’t say “it doesn’t count”. I won’t drive, for whatever reasons, so my world is about making do with the other options.

  Someone in the past commented here, concerned that more transit users will make things unbearable. Not much worse tha a crowded bus, except it’s worse when it’s really hot. You have to consider that before you get everyone to move to public transit.

  Michael

• Bill Binns 09:40 on 2019-08-07 Permalink

  This city is not even close to ready for the scooter apocalypse. What few rules exist for the bike baths are already being flaunted. I see full size electric motorcycles with registration tags on the bike paths and zooming through La Fontaine park every day. Wait until hordes of clueless tourists are trying to make their way up to Mount Royal from Old Montreal on a scooter capable of 50kmh or more. The drivers of these vehicles invade every possible space. They mix it up in traffic while completely ignoring every rule of the road, on sidewalks, through parks even indoors. I was in Portland last summer and witnessed all of the above first hand. I also rented one and they are wildly fun but even with the best intentions it was difficult to know where they were allowed and where they were not.

  I predict that if the city does nothing, electric vehicles will outnumber muscle powered bicycles on the bike paths within 2 years.

• Joey 09:49 on 2019-08-07 Permalink

  QED

• Mr.Chinaski 10:00 on 2019-08-07 Permalink

  The more choice you have for the famous “first and last KM”, the better. I do not want to wait all the time at my bus station for the of-course-late bus line. If I can pay a buck or two so that a scooter can bring me to the nearest metro station, than the more the merrier.

  If they outnumber bikes, than so be it.

• Bill Binns 10:06 on 2019-08-07 Permalink

  @Mr. Chinaski – Well, it’s quite old fashioned but bipedal locomotion still works pretty well for that “first and last kilometer”. It’s not like you are going to carry a load of groceries on a scooter.

• Faiz Imam 15:02 on 2019-08-07 Permalink

  I see your fears Bill, but you forget that there is a salability issue here.

  These scooters don’t run off nothing. They need to be charged after every few hours of use, and the charging process is not very efficient due to the distributed nature of the service.

  It basically ends up being some people in cars that pass by, grab a bunch of scooters and take them to their house, or other private space, charge them back up and dump them outside to be used again.

  You can apparently make $5-$10 off each one, so plenty of people are ready to do it, but the logistics imposes a cap on how many scooters can be out there.

  Whatever it ends up being, its much less than Bixi can do if they electrify and add ebikes to their existing docks and network.

  Regardless, we should expect to see guys like this going around much more frequently: https://static.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/2e190164-848a-11e8-ad57-41bbac1aa85d-1560×1164.jpg

• Kate 19:13 on 2019-08-07 Permalink

  Faiz Imam, wouldn’t doing this run up your Hydro bill? What do you really earn?

• Chris 19:15 on 2019-08-07 Permalink

  Faiz, they call those people “juicers”. Kate, yes, it costs you hydro, but you still profit, supposedly.

  Bill, your opinion reminds me of how people viewed automobiles in the early 20th century. Some reading for you: http://www.copenhagenize.com/2011/02/anti-automobile-age-and-what-we-can.html

• mare 19:18 on 2019-08-07 Permalink

  I was surprised that in the US, the average lifespan of a Lime or Bird scooter is less than a month. Of course there you don’t need a helmet or motor cycle license (who has those?) and don’t have to leave it on designated spots. No, you can just drop them anywhere you like, like a ditch, or your basement and then buy and install a hacked motherboard from China that disables the GPS so you ‘own’ it and can use it for free.

  https://qz.com/1561654/how-long-does-a-scooter-last-less-than-a-month-louisville-data-suggests/

• Faiz Imam 21:28 on 2019-08-07 Permalink

  Kate, the batteries on these things are not very big. They are about 2-3 times the size of a typical laptop battery.

  I just did the math. At 300 watthours on a battery, and 6 cents to hydro Quebec per Kilowatthour each of them cost 2 cents to charge.

  And that’s not taking into account that some people have access to free power.

  “Juicers” can easily make $100 a day doing this, but since there is no barrier to entry, its apparently a very nasty, cut-throat situation with many people involved.

  Which takes us back to a previous conversation. We are already spending millions of dollars building charging stations for EV cars. Having public charging stations and vehicle storage for ebikes and scooters would be immensely helpful in keeping them from littering the street, as well as efficiently used.

  I can totally see taking up a parking spot or two to have “pens” where you can pump these vehicles, with plenty of standard power outlets to allow any brand or service to charge up.

• Kate 21:53 on 2019-08-07 Permalink

  Faiz Imam, what good is it going to do then if you have a crowd of people *in cars* constantly circulating looking to pick these things up?

• Chris 22:24 on 2019-08-07 Permalink

  What good is it going to do for who? For juicers, it’ll do the good of making a buck. For traffic, it may add more, if juicers outnumber people replacing a car trip.

  Bixi also has cars, trucks actually, that constantly move bixis around based on where there are too many bikes vs too few.

• Faiz Imam 23:11 on 2019-08-07 Permalink

  From what i’ve read in other cities, the juicers don’t really add a traffic burden, many of them use other scooters or bikes to get around, and in most cities its not like there are hundreds of these people… yet.

  Should be pointed out that the smartphone app provides the exact location of all low battery scooters, so they tend to not drive randomly like taxis/ubers. So that’s a huge benefit. The job is basically a never ending geocaching treasure hunt.

  The real issue is that once they’ve charged up, they tend to dump all of the scooters on a convenient street corner where they get in everyone’s way.

  Only one way to find out I guess. But if we as a society come up with some basic rules to not store them in too stupid a fashion, it’ll probably be a net positive. Lets see how this goes.

• Blork 10:02 on 2019-08-08 Permalink

  This is a good reminder that many (most?) Silicon Valley “disruption” startups are NOT about making the world a better place, or all the rainbows and feels that they present publicly. No, they’re about getting people’s attention, selling snake oil in order to get lots of VC funding, and then maybe (*maybe*) pivoting towards something useful or revenue positive but only after they’ve left a trail of destruction. Actually, the pivot is “Plan B.” Plan A is to get acquired by a larger company, then run off with the money and start all over again.

• Raymond Lutz 11:49 on 2019-08-08 Permalink

  Blork, historiquement le capitalisme a traversé diverses phases (que je ne tenterai pas ici de définir, encore moins expliquer) mais ce que vous décrivez comme attitude (it’s not about making the world a better place… ie, fuck them, they’re loosers and *I* am super smart) n’est pas exclusif à notre époque ni aux seules startups… see movies like “The Big Short” or “Margin Call”.

• Blork 12:50 on 2019-08-08 Permalink

  Raymond Lutz; you are correct. But the Silicon Valley startups have a particular habit of targeting milennials, half-informed self-appointed new urbanists, and similar people who are gullible to any pitches that make it sound like buying in means you are part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

• Blork 12:52 on 2019-08-08 Permalink

  And FFS, any new urbanists who were offended by what I just posted, please read again. I didn’t say new urbanists are half-informed and self appointed. I said those who are half-informed about new urbanism and self-appoint themselves new urbanists beause they read two articles on BuzzFeed.

• CE 12:54 on 2019-08-08 Permalink

  Getting a little ahead of yourself there aren’t you Blork?

• Blork 13:00 on 2019-08-08 Permalink

  Yeah, it’s nipping it in the bud. A few recent dumbass scrapes on FB has me a bit jumpy about that.

  Dumbass things like:

  OP: Blah blah blah and the guy had a semi-automatic revolver!
  Me: It’s either a semi-automatic or a revolver. They’re two different things.
  OP: Typical NRA supporter response!

  Oh FFS!

• Daniel 13:42 on 2019-08-08 Permalink

  Hopefully not too off topic, a little video about the current status of e-scooters in London to provide a view from another city struggling with similar issues: https://youtu.be/y6EnrqvsyEs

• js 14:16 on 2019-08-08 Permalink

  Why don’t they just put electric wheelchairs out there for these people to zoom around in? In keeping with the targeted demographic they could make it even more attractive by attaching little televisions, microwave ovens, and mini-bars.

• Raymond Lutz 14:46 on 2019-08-08 Permalink

  Repo men vs Juicers! Let the fight begin!

• Faiz Imam 15:49 on 2019-08-08 Permalink

  Great article Raymond, not sure where I stand in that fight.

  But it’s clear that the conflict here is not directly with the scooters themselves, but how they share space with other vehicles and bodies on the streets.

  It’s very similar to how cars were introduced a century ago. People just left them all over the place, and it created a lot of confusion until the auto supporters were able to take over.

  The key thing the scooters have going for them is that they are incredibly space efficient.

  If we can find a way to fit them on the streetscape they can only be a positive influence in transforming the city.

  One idea that comes to mind is that we should be able to report misplaced scooters. Take a picture, send in a report with a serial number, and the key is that whoever previously rented that scooter should be fined.

  It doesn’t have to be a big fine to change the behaviour of irresponsible users.

• Kate 07:37 on 2019-08-09 Permalink

  CE, people are weird right now. A couple of days ago, on Twitter, and not connected with this blog, I corrected someone who said a man attacked a kid for not standing up for the American anthem. The story, as I pointed out, was that he had attacked the kid for not removing his hat. The person then verbally attacked me for defending the guy!

  I responded there was no reason to attack me, it was just a matter of factual detail, and the person actually apologized – twice. But people’s nerves are on edge. I can see why Blork pre-emptively defended himself.

• CE 08:19 on 2019-08-09 Permalink

  This is why I’ve extracted myself from social media. I didn’t even engage that much but I could feel my stress levels go up for hours after using Facebook or Instagram. I can’t even imagine what it’s like to be a regular Twitter user!