Updates from June, 2020 Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts

  • Kate 16:52 on 2020-06-30 Permalink | Reply  

    Obligatory masks for public transit begin July 13 for everyone over age 12 – but nobody will be enforcing it, Premier Legault apparently relying on peer pressure. I can’t say peer pressure has been impressively effective till now, so I don’t understand what will change as of July 13.

    • Uatu 18:26 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

      Was on the metro this afternoon and the majority of riders were masked. There were a few who weren’t and they stuck out so maybe some will become self conscious and wear one? Anyway if most riders are masked then hopefully it’ll slow down spread. Better than nothing I guess

    • GC 20:26 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

      I saw a compliance rate of about 30-40%, but that was a couple of weeks ago and maybe people have grown more considerate. When you say “majority”, Uatu, do you mean 60%? 80%?

      I fear the peer pressure model will have a lot of people putting them on as they enter and then taking them off on the platform or partway through the ride. Or just spending the whole time with a chinguard, which perplexes met no end.

    • Uatu 06:25 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      @GC- yeah it looked like 60-80%. I was kinda surprised but figured that everyone heard the announcement from the government that afternoon. I even saw a masked 5yr old and his mom. The metro was also crowded compared to the last 3mos. so it’s getting harder to keep social distance. Also noticed a lot more bespoke cloth masks which is typically Montreal; facing a pandemic with style.

    • Mr.Chinaski 09:17 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      I wonder this winter if a scarf will be considered as a mask

    • Kate 10:25 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      Mr.Chinaski, that wouldn’t be very comfortable. Who keeps a scarf up over their face once they’re aboard?

    • Faiz imam 10:27 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      As far as the government is concerned, I have seen examples of a bandana over the face shown as recommended in various ads and documents.

    • walkerp 11:07 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      Could have been pure coincidence, but yesterday for the first time I saw 4 private vehicles with the passengers all wearing masks. We anglos forget, but Quebecers do listen to their government on things like this. I suspect we see a big upsurge in mask use in general now.

    • Francesco 11:23 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      I’ll say it again, it has been dismaying to leave the West Island — where mask use has been consistently high over the course of the crisis — to go to Costco and Home Depot in Vaudreuil and witness fairly low use.

    • DeWolf 12:07 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      Has Costco stopped handing out free masks? They were last time I went to the Marché Central location and more than 90 percent of people were wearing them or their own face covering.

    • Francesco 14:16 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      I only ever visit Pte-Claire and Vaudreuil; it has been a month since I bothered with Vaudreuil but Pte-Claire definitely hands masks to those not wearing one and mandates usage.

  • Kate 16:35 on 2020-06-30 Permalink | Reply  

    Renaming a key metro station like Lionel-Groulx would be too confusing, says Émilie Thuillier, heritage czar on the city’s executive committee. Competing petitions continue to either support the status quo, or plead for a change of name to Oscar Peterson.

    • j2 16:43 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

      Ok that’s the dumbest argument ever. We’d never rename anything.

      And Lionel-Groulx is difficult for non-francophone tourists to say, it’s not exactly catchy, they’d remember anything better than Lee Noel Groo.

    • Alison Cummins 16:59 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

      j2, I thought it was lin’l grulx?

    • Yan Carpentier 17:42 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

      i don’t give a flying fuck if non-francophone find the name hard to say, Pitorsone.

    • Alison Cummins 18:29 on 2020-06-30 Permalink


      Si une des justifications pour garder le nom actuel est de ne pas porter confusion aux touristes, évidemment qu’il y a *quelqu’un* qui se souci des non-francophones.

    • jeather 21:21 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

      Yes, would hate to rename major streets or anything, that would be confusing.

    • Max 21:53 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

      It’s been Oscar-Peterson to me for years now. If I tell my friends I’ll meet them at OP in 25 minutes they know exactly what I mean. Try it. Perhaps common usage might eventually prevail?

    • JaneyB 00:43 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      @Max – I like it. I’m gonna try that. It could work as Oscar’s or Oscar’s Place too eg: I’ll meet you at Oscar’s in 10.

    • ant6n 04:14 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      Let`s just rename it “Gru”.

    • CharlesQ 06:43 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      I thought mayor Plante wanted the stations on the pink line to be named after important women. I guess they won’t be able to do that anymore.

    • Tim F 10:00 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      How about “Peterson–Groulx?

    • Dan 10:20 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      Do I love having the station named Lionel-Groulx? Of course not. But this would be a particularly complicated, confusing and costly name change, that I can only assume for whatever reasons would cost way too many millions of dollars.

      Be like Max and call it how you like. Donate those millions of dollars to a charity of his widow’s choosing, or start a neighborhood piano program for kids. Install a statue of Oscar right in front of the doors so tourists are more interested to learn about him than the weird name above the metro doors. Make good use of the money put behind his legacy, don’t throw it down the pit of STM mismanagement and bureaucratic nonsense.

    • Francesco 11:17 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      Too confusing? How? But renaming sections of major boulevards, nah that’s fine. People are smart.

      Too costly? How? Putting a sticker on a few hundred maps? But renaming sections of major boulevards, nah that’s fine. The thousands of corporations and individuals residing there are happy to change letterheads and websites and do all the work and cover costs for something they never demanded.

      Metro and commuter train station names *have* been changed often in the past — in fact, *most* of the Deux-Montagnes Exo line (Roxboro-Two Mountains line ;)) station names have been renamed. It’s rather not as difficult or as costly as changing street names.

    • Uatu 13:20 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      Just call it petit Bourgogne and be done with it

    • j2 13:39 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      Yan, rude? and maybe misses the point. The assertion was that changing the name would be confusing, my point is it already is. And the city has changed landmark names countless times, clearly. Yours, is that so is Peterson – sure, makes sense – and you hate tourism?

      I actually have no interest in calling it Peterson, either way, but an interesting assumption by you. I am a bit surprised of the interest in retaining the name of an, at least alleged, anti-Semite. It seems to me it might be better to have a name that was more universally usable for the last stop for the 747 bus and from the metro.
      (Well until the REM destroys that).

    • Ian 13:54 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      Remember when changing the name from Berri-de-Montigny to Berri-UQAM bankrupted the STM and confused all tourists forever? Yeah me neither. This is a war of symbols, let’s not play the logistics game because that’s got nothing to do with it and we all know it.

    • Francesco 14:14 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      The multiple assertions I’ve read recently that Groulx was steadfast in his protection of “minorities” because he was protecting the “francophone minority in Canada” are truly bizarre.

    • Ian 14:25 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      There is an ongoing narrative within nationalist circles that Francophone Québecois cannot possibly be racist as they are the victims of racist persecution by English Canada.

      This was actually a fairly common argument laid out by a wide variety of minority groups and was used to silence other forms of activism (i.e. “you are distracting from the cause”) but the obvious logical flaws in that kind of single-issue approach is in part what led to intersectionalism… granted that in turn led to a form of identity politics hat unvoices people for a variety of reasons. There are no easy solutions, but claiming immunity from racism because you are from a persecuted group suggests a fairly obvious incapacity for introspection & empathy – at the very least.

      That we have the CAQ introducing legislation like Loi 21 with the support of the majority of Québecois shows that the legacy of Lionel-Groulx is strong. For what it’s worth, even Legault claims to be protecting women by enforcing a law against hijabs. Paternalistic, lacking introspection… plus ça change.

    • Francesco 15:55 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      Thank you Ian, well said.

      So as a member of the persecuted anglophone minority 😉 I can’t possibly be called a racist for calling Bernard Landry a racist (on another forum). Oy vey my head hurts.

    • Kate 11:08 on 2020-07-02 Permalink

      Just crossed my mind that calling it Peterson could be mistaken for Jordan Peterson, ew.

      I like “Oscar” or “OP” though.

  • Kate 12:49 on 2020-06-30 Permalink | Reply  

    According to Metro, the pedestrianization of Mont-Royal is looking like it’s working with merchants finding more business from the foot traffic.

    Update: Metro also says some Mile End merchants are now asking Plateau borough to pedestrianize one of its streets – Bernard, St-Viateur, or Fairmount.

    • CharlesQ 13:49 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

      Just wait until the Quebecor empire finds that disgruntled business and do write up article saying the complete opposite.

    • david182 22:46 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

      All three could be pedestrianized, at least for the summer. Rachel was probably too much – it’s a significant cross street – but these are small streets with lots (or used to be) of local commerçants.

      I think my top street for pedestrianization at his point would still be Sainte-Cath in the Concordia ghetto. Even with all the foreigners and others out of town, that area is certainly the highest population density in the city, particularly with all the new buildings that have gone up between the Bell Center/Sainte Cath/Atwater/Dominion Square. 10,000+ people in 10 years just in that small area.

      They don’t have a huge number of commercial offerings, but it’s not either them or us (with Mont-Royal, etc). They should shut it down to cars and let people get out there!

    • Ian 10:28 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      “foreigners and others” not even trying to dogwhistle anymore, eh dave(x)?

      As somebody who actually lives in Mile End I could see it working on Bernard. It’s a good wide street with lots of mixed business and few patios. There are a few spots where there are empty storefronts but no worse than on other Mile End streets, and it might be just the thing to get local businesses up and running again especially that bit between Clark & St-Laurent.

      Saint Viateur would be problematic because there are a LOT of businesses that get all their deliveries by truck along the street, as the alleys are narrow and aren’t passable by large trucks – only the alley between Parc and Jeanne-Mance is viable for that. Since the streets were intentionally narrowed to slow traffic a few years back, trucks have become a real menace on Saint V. Also worth noting Lipa on Parc does almost constant grocery van deliveries all day so the mouth of the alley behind Parc would need to be kept open at Saint Viateur. The SAQ on Parc also uses big trucks that can only get in and out in that alley.

      Fairmount is actually pretty underpopulated business-wise between Waverly & Parc – it’s almost all school buildings except for Arts Café which already has a terrasse so unless they only wanted to pedestrianize the trendy strip between St-Laurent and Waverly, I can’t help but wonder what the point would be.

      Were it not for the perpetual construction I’d also suggest Laurier, it was actually kind of recovering for a couple of years before Gascogne closed & the luxury hotel started being built in what is possibly one of the slowest construction projects I’ve ever seen.

      I don’t really see what the problem is with Atigh though, Fabergé has a terrasse, Kem Coba basically had a terrasse built for them by the city… unless the problem is that only between St-Laurent & St-Urbain is zoned for terrasses? But that would be an easy zoning fix, I would think.

      My main concern with removing parking spaces on those commercial streets is that all the people that drive to get their bagels or coffee or overpriced brunches or artisanal sorbet or yoga pants or hibiscus pop are going to park on the residential streets, inconveniencing residents. I asked Richard Ryan about it and he hand waved the question because there is sticker parking. While this is true, a third of the street parking is open to non-residents, and there is overflow. Unless PM also makes all adjacent residential streets sticker parking only, it’s unfair to create special zones for business at the expense of residents.

    • David986 11:30 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      Dogwhistle? When you’re using an imported American term, I’d thank you to use it properly. In normal times, that stretch of Ville Marie is packed with foreigners and others (Canadians), most of whom are students of some kind. Not much of a controversy in that observation. Since Covid-19, many of these are back in their homelands/provinces, so that the area has fewer people than usual – potentially an argument against pedestrianization.

    • Ian 14:14 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      Your “de chez nous” routine is tiresome, paternalistic, and utterly transparent. You know exactly what I mean, we are also Canadians. Stop trying to “other” people. Unless of course you mean in a colonialist occupier of unceded indigenous lands sense, but somehow I doubt that was your meaning.

      I know I shouldn’t stoop to your level but “dogwhistle” is not “an imported American term”, it was first used politically in Australia and is now widely used throughout the English-speaking world – which, despite what you may think, Montreal English is part of.

    • david93 15:00 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      Yeah, I guess in your world it’s called “othering” to describe people who come from “other” places, but in mine, it’s perfectly normal to describe, say, foreign/Canadian students who move to Montreal on a temporary basis and have now emptied out an entire part of town, as somehow qualitatively different in habitation patterns/behavior. What a crazy thing to say! I’m so glad you’re here to set me straight. Thanks!

    • Ian 15:21 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      This is the beauty of dogwhistling, is that when you get called out on it you can simply say “oh, is that how you took it? That’s not what I meant at all, how absurd to accuse me of such a thing” while slyly winking at your audience. Well played dave(x).

      “Even with all the foreigners and others out of town, that area is certainly the highest population density in the city” … clearly, not trying to make us think those “others” somehow don’t belong in Montreal. You meant foreigners and those from other places, not in the sense of “otherness” at all! Of course 😉

    • david93 16:39 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      What would that even whistle? Are you really trying to tell me that Canadians are an oppressed group such that they can even be “othered” in this context to their detriment? Canadians trash Quebec all the time, they have totally different values, they’re often smug and annoying, and they assume a lot of things that I’m not enthusiastic about – for instance, that their lack of culture (which is a culture) is a universal law that all countries should follow. But they’re definitely not going to suffer from having their Canadianness pointed out, particularly when we’re discussing their habitation patterns in Montreal.

      And I’m not anti-foreigner – I posted at length about the provinces new scheme just a few days ago, and I’m probably the only regular poster on here that has any idea how immigration even works in Quebec or Canada. I’m pro-immigration. Though moderately anti-French, as I find them almost as annoying as I find many Canadians.

      I think you need to take your Woke 120 textbook of the shelf and review it to get a better sense of what constitutes ‘dogwhistling’ – both on form and content.

    • Ian 18:23 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      So your defense is that you’re just a bigot? Interesting.

    • david03 23:45 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      Yeah, I’m a bigot against Canadians and French, exactly. Sound the alarm and sign the song for the politically marooned left wing anglo-quebecker on the island of Montreal – you’ve found your enemy.

    • Kate 09:40 on 2020-07-02 Permalink

      Ian, david doggedly holds that Quebec is not in Canada and has an entirely different culture. I don’t really care what he believes, but this line of debate is sterile and doesn’t go anywhere because it’s counterfactual – an article of personal faith, not of fact.

    • Ian 11:15 on 2020-07-03 Permalink

      Fair enough.

      In any case I still don’t see why the borough won’t just let Atigh and whoever else on Fairmount wants a terasse to have one, they already have terasses at Arts Café, Belle Corée, Barros Lucos, Fabergé, Kem Coba (effectively) … we don’t need to shut down the whole street as it doesn’t make sense. Bernard, though, would be great – especially since there are also several decent bars on Bernard that would clearly benefit from a terasse in a way that maybe a place specializing in hibiscus pop might not.

  • Kate 09:50 on 2020-06-30 Permalink | Reply  

    Music venues around town are facing bleak prospects as there’s no chance of getting a crowd in for the foreseeable future.

    • MarcG 10:31 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

      I read yesterday that the La Vitrola is closing and Casa del Popolo is turning the stage into a retail store for local arty stuff.

    • MarcG 11:00 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

      … aaaaand that information is in the linked article. (To be honest I hardly ever click on Kate’s links, I prefer her editorializing)

    • EmilyG 11:25 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

      This is really depressing for the arts community.

    • Ian 14:28 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

      word on the street is that the classic dive/ music venue Brasserie Beaubien is also closing

  • Kate 09:42 on 2020-06-30 Permalink | Reply  

    Aaron Derfel analyzes the latest Covid numbers on Twitter. He looks sideways at some of the numbers coming from the U.S. and makes some predictions. I also see that my neighbourhood has some of the worst numbers of community infections at the moment, so I won’t be holding that back yard beach party I promised everyone.

    • DeWolf 10:26 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

      It feels like people are trying to find excuses to freak out. But we aren’t Texas or California. The US has a dysfunctional health care system that excludes the people who need care the most. Texas and many other states very quickly opened back to full capacity after a lockdown that lasted the blink of an eye, and they have a huge contingent of Covid-denying Trump supporters who take needless risks. France and Italy have opened their bars without incident, but I guess they’re too far away to count. I’m not saying we haven’t taken a gamble by opening bars, but I also think it’s useless making predictions based on what is happening in places with very different health rules, cultures and sociopolitical contexts.

    • Kate 11:39 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

      I don’t think that’s Derfel’s aim. When I read his threads I realize he’s searching for tipping points. What rules or decisions are being made that make a difference in outcomes from one place to another? Also, which rules can you realistically expect the populace to follow, and which not?

    • DeWolf 11:41 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

      Yes, my issue is not with his reporting but with his audience, and by extension the panicky threads and comments we are seeing all over social media.

    • Ian 10:43 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

      So you liked it better when CAQ said they weren’t going to release data any more? Derfel is doing a public service…

  • Kate 09:25 on 2020-06-30 Permalink | Reply  

    It’s alleged that the West Island CIUSSS paid a PR firm a lot of money to concoct a line for them to take throughout the deadly CHSLD story in March and April.

    • Kate 09:22 on 2020-06-30 Permalink | Reply  

      A young man died of heart failure last summer during the marathon, and now the coroner’s report is in. It mentions disorganization and poor communication as reasons why an ambulance didn’t arrive till too late. But the Gazette story says Patrick Neely suffered from congenital heart disease. If someone with such a condition pushes himself to the limit, I’m not sure anyone else should be blamed for the outcome.

      Update: the man’s father accuses the organization of gross negligence.

      • Michael Black 10:00 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

        But the report talks about problems. If someone else had died, those problems were still there. How can the organizatiin improve things?

      • Kate 10:26 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

        After that race, Lassonde ended its sponsorship and the director stepped down, so it seems likely that if a new marathon ever materializes, it will be run differently by different people.

      • EmilyG 11:26 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

        People who are not in perfect health shouldn’t be treated poorly.

      • Kate 11:49 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

        I did not say they should. But google for “marathon waiver” and you’ll find a lot of examples. To participate, everyone has to sign a document attesting they know the risks and are in good health.

        This doesn’t excuse the organizers last year of everything. They should have tested the emergency communications better and made sure everyone was on top of procedures.

      • EmilyG 13:37 on 2020-06-30 Permalink


      • Blork 15:35 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

        As Michael Black says, it’s not about this one guy, but about safety and procedures in general. For example, I heard one person (some kind of expert, I think) saying that 90% of marathon heart attacks happen in the last couple of kilometres. So if you’re going to have defibrillators (and you ARE going to have defibrillators!) then that is where you put them. Not stuck somewhere far away where it takes 12 minutes to get it to the scene. Etc. etc. etc.

      • Alison Cummins 17:09 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

        I think if you have a cardiac condition and you sign a waiver, you’re thinking “This is a summer marathon. Even if I have a heart attack, they have defibrillators and ambulances on standby. I’ll probably be ok. I can’t live my life worrying about ‘what if.'”

        You aren’t thinking, “If I have a heart attack, any first responders will be untrained and unequipped and unable to call for help and I will be dead before an ambulance can get to me. This is not the marathon for me.”

      • Kate 09:03 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

        Nonetheless, you’re undertaking a challenge that pushes even the healthiest to their limits. If you do so, knowing you harbour a relevant physical weakness, you’re taking a bigger risk than others.

    • Kate 09:02 on 2020-06-30 Permalink | Reply  

      Rental income has soared since 2005 for owners of properties, so the next time the landlord group moans about low profits, the horse laugh is on them.

      • Kate 08:58 on 2020-06-30 Permalink | Reply  

        The Cirque du Soleil has filed for bankruptcy protection after months with no revenue.

        • Kate 08:56 on 2020-06-30 Permalink | Reply  

          A garage in St-Michel has had its second fire within 24 hours, tending to solidify the arson theory.

          • Kate 17:43 on 2020-06-29 Permalink | Reply  

            Since players resumed training, 26 NHL players have tested positive for Covid. It still isn’t decided whether the league will attempt to play matches this summer or, as in 1919, call it off.

            • mare 21:00 on 2020-06-29 Permalink

              Wow, 26 out of 250? So team sports appear to more dangerous than we thought. Or the kind of people who are playing in the NHL are not very risk averse.

            • Kevin 23:56 on 2020-06-29 Permalink

              Never forget- in October 2018 Carey Price was the only person in Quebec with the flu.
              He’s also had the flu in Oct. 2016 and had it again this past February, so obviously hockey players have terrible immune systems and will never get vaccinations

            • Kate 09:34 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

              Price said last week he wouldn’t take the risk, but the latest news I find says he’s on his way here to join the team after all.

            • MarcG 10:34 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

              Possibly similar to the reason it’s common in meat packing plants – cold environment + close quarters?

            • Josh 15:47 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

              MarcG: Same thing, more or less, is happening in baseball, basketball and certain college football quarters in the US, too.

            • Alison Cummins 17:10 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

              Cold environment, close quarters and lots of yelling.

            • Uatu 17:49 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

              And sweaty locker rooms. They had trouble dealing with the mumps a couple of years ago

            • MarcG 10:42 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

              I think the word you’re looking for is “moist”

          • Kate 17:39 on 2020-06-29 Permalink | Reply  

            The contract has been signed to take down the old Champlain bridge. It will be winter 2024 before it’s totally gone.

            • Kate 17:05 on 2020-06-29 Permalink | Reply  

              Wearing a mask will be mandatory on public transit in Quebec starting soon.

              • Chris 18:26 on 2020-06-29 Permalink

                Wow. Draconian. Didn’t think they’d go that far.

              • Dhomas 18:29 on 2020-06-29 Permalink

                They should make them mandatory in malls and stores, too. It’s immensely frustrating to see others with no masks while I’m wearing mine. I’m not doing it to protect myself; I’m doing it to prevent spreading the virus to others should I have it and not know it yet. It would be nice if others would have the same courtesy towards me.

              • Chris 18:50 on 2020-06-29 Permalink

                So is that the new rule? One can’t do anything that might have the slightness possibility of negative consequence on anyone else? Because I see people smoking in parks, worsening my asthma. I see people driving cars, killing the planet. I see people over-consuming purchasing useless crap, killing the planet. Those actions hurt others. They get to carry on with that why? But one can’t take a bus in one’s natural state?

              • Kate 19:05 on 2020-06-29 Permalink

                Chris, your tendency to push points to the extreme is showing again.

                Right here, right now, we have a specific proven problem which we can help by wearing a bit of cloth over the face. It’s easy to do. Are you saying that because we don’t all live like selfless saints that we should not bother to take any means that might improve the general lot?

              • walkerp 19:15 on 2020-06-29 Permalink

                Yes, Chris, this is all about you.

                What we are seeing is this incredible immaturity among grown people who cannot be told no. They are so stunted in their social growth that they cannot conceive of anything that might hinder them from doing whatever they want now as having any value. It is literally the mentality of a toddler and anybody who has parented recognizes it right away.

                Imagine raging about your “freedom” during WWII because you couldn’t buy any sugar.

                I must blame poor education, the culture of consumerism and individualism of the post-war years and finally accelerated by social media quite recently.

              • Matthew H 19:54 on 2020-06-29 Permalink

                No, one can’t take a bus in one’s natural state. One is required to wear pants, for obvious hygenic reasons. Similarly, during an unprecedented global pandemic which has killed half a million people, one is now also required to wear a mask. Get over it.

              • qatzelok 20:48 on 2020-06-29 Permalink

                I’m not sure that it’s really helpful to wear a mask AFTER a virus has circulated and done its thing.

                Perhaps this is the same social dynamic as media viewers shaming people into wearing bike helmets a few years ago – because you know better because you’re so media addicted..

              • DeWolf 23:04 on 2020-06-29 Permalink

                A couple of months ago, I was optimistic that people would wear masks voluntarily with enough encouragement, but I was wrong. People are being weirdly bullheaded about this, and perhaps some of the responses in this thread explain why. At this point I think it’s necessary to make them mandatory – and not just in public transit, but also in any indoor public space.

                Many other places have made them mandatory in all public spaces, including outdoors, which I think is extreme and unenforceable. But requiring them indoors seems like a no-brainer.

              • Mark Côté 23:20 on 2020-06-29 Permalink

                “AFTER a virus has circulated and done its thing”

                I feel like making a Stephen-Hawking-style bet and take someone up on this. Either the virus is actually done and I’ll happily pay out some sum of money, or I’ll be able to console myself with some extra money once the virus sweeps through again.

              • DeWolf 23:24 on 2020-06-29 Permalink

                The virus hasn’t stopped circulating. We are still seeing 30 new cases a day in Montreal. That’s not many compared to before, but it still means there is potential for an outbreak at any time.

              • Kevin 00:12 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

                And as the province makes masks mandatory on the bus, it stops making them mandatory for dentists.

                The decision-makers have no sense.

              • MarcG 10:39 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

                My friend who worked in the ER told me to wear a bike helmet because she’d seen the difference it makes up close and personal. Not everything is a conspiracy.

              • MarcG 10:48 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

                I would also like to say that what I read in Chris’ comments is not that this law is unjust and trampling his freedom, but that if we really, truly cared about people’s well-being, we would outlaw a ton of other stuff as well and start cleaning up our mess.

              • Ephraim 13:50 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

                Apparently, people don’t think too much about the second coming… Chicken-Pox is also Shingles. Polio has post-polio syndrome… you just don’t know what a dormant version of this looks like and how it will come back. That’s a good enough reason to wear a mask.

              • JaneyB 14:24 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

                Indoor masks are a no-brainer for a while. In countries with dense sidewalk activity, outdoors too. This is not a hardship.

                Was in Angrignon mall a couple of days ago. It was mostly empty. All the stores have the disinfectant protocol, number of customers, and shut changing rooms. I would say about 80% of women were wearing masks and about 30% of the men (almost entirely 20 year olds and seniors, sadly few between). Frustrating behaviour on the guy side here. Is it that much of a burden to think of others for a few months…

              • Ian 14:31 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

                Consider how many people on this blog think advocating for wearing bike helmets is a conspiracy to prevent bicycling I’m not surprised there’s a strong “masks are a conspiracy” contingent here, too.

              • GC 20:23 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

                I find your sample interesting, JaneyB. In my (very limited) anecdotal experience, it was definitely women who were more likely to be masked. The four times I’ve been on the metro, however, it seemed to be the opposite with the age groups. Those in the 30-50 range were wearing most of the masks and it was the younger/older set who seemed lacking.

              • Orr 11:06 on 2020-07-01 Permalink

                >>>Consider how many people on this blog think advocating for wearing bike helmets is a conspiracy to prevent bicycling…

                Let’s look at some science!

                “Bicycle helmet laws reduce the amount of cycling and hence at least part of the reduction is attributable to reduced exposure to accidents.”

                Source:: https://nacto.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/2012_de-Jong_Health-Impacts-of-Mandatory-Bicycle-Helmet-Laws.pdf

            • Kate 12:05 on 2020-06-29 Permalink | Reply  

              Quebec’s labour minister says CERB is bad for business because people won’t work if they’re not threatened with hunger and homelessness. It’s odd that Jean Boulet can’t see the other side of the coin, which is that if you starve the populace, they won’t be in any position to stimulate the economy. CERB’s all about keeping the economy simmering, not so much about “spoiling” the lazy worker.

              • Myles 15:22 on 2020-06-29 Permalink

                Maybe if employers offered a decent salary, people would be more inclined to work. It’s not like $2000 a month is extravagant.

              • Blork 15:55 on 2020-06-29 Permalink

                We live in a highly developed country in the 21st century. You’d think that “avoid starvation” shouldn’t be the primary reason to get out of bed each morning.

              • Michael Black 16:17 on 2020-06-29 Permalink

                This has a certain spin, and it’s already come up in other provinces.

                It portrays people as being lazy and wanting to stay home. Yet there is the real possibility of getting sick, and for some people, even dying. That seems more like the reason than “because they are paid better to stay home.” Maybe it applies to some, but not likely all.

                Again, the government wants people to take precautions, but then it’s not a switch to turn on and off. it expects people to turn around when it wants it.

                People stayed home because things shut down. It will take effort to change them back, especially given “fear” was driving the shutdown. Every bus I’ve seen in three months has been empty enough that it looks empty (but maybe it is different elsewhere.). Some of it is people stayed home but some of it is that they don’t want to be close to other people, so they use other means of getting around. That won’t change on a dime either.

                Propaganda works both ways, you can get the populace to follow, but then you have to make effort to have them follow in another direction.

              • Ephraim 06:38 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

                So, where am I supposed to find this magic job that will let me go back to my business once it returns? Who wants to hire me for a month or two, knowing that I own a business that’s COVID affected and that I may quit at any time? Could I go back to teaching and then just QUIT?

              • JaneyB 14:34 on 2020-06-30 Permalink

                Well, Boulet is not thinking clearly. I’m spending that money here in QC, helping keep the economy humming in some small way while my job is temporarily suspended. And more to the point: How different is that from the 40% salary subsidy that cultural companies (eg: Ubisoft) get from the provincial govt in normal times?

                And @Myles is right – it’s poorly paid, high risk jobs that are having trouble finding people and that’s despite the very modest CERB payment option. Employers are used to telling jobseekers to retrain at their own expense and make themselves more attractive. Well, in covid times, those employers need to change their business model and safety protocols to make themselves more attractive than 2000K a month. Really, that shouldn’t be too hard.

            • Kate 11:16 on 2020-06-29 Permalink | Reply  

              Serious accidents involving construction cranes are on the rise in Quebec, but who on earth could have foreseen this, after the authorities cut down on obligatory training for crane operators – a change which even led to a wildcat crane operator walkout two years ago?

              Compose new post
              Next post/Next comment
              Previous post/Previous comment
              Show/Hide comments
              Go to top
              Go to login
              Show/Hide help
              shift + esc