Police bulldozed a homeless camp under the 720 on Monday.
Updates from October, 2020 Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts
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Kate
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Kate
There’s yet more trouble in the endless dossier of the Côte-des-Neiges-NDG city hall infighting.
Jack
I really don’t have access to any more information that is being published and even that seems weak on this story. There is something more here.
The one thing I do know is that Stephane Plante is a long term municipal cadre that has presided over a borough that has seen its former mayor jailed for corruption. This along with the fact that UPAC is still investigating corruption in that borough, which led sadly to the suicide of one its managers.
Sue Montgomery comes in with a clear mandate to change the way the borough operates. Conflict opens up between Senior management and the elected mayor. This is the group that judges… https://www.cmq.gouv.qc.ca/fr/la-commission/l-organisation
Is there a conflict of interests here? Lifer Civil Servants at the Provincial level deciding on what is a toxic work environment? Do you think someone like Stephane Plante understands these career civil servants preoccupations.
There is something about this situation that does not make sense.
One is Valerie Plante’s reaction.Ian
It’s kind of amazing that the Projet Montreal councillors circled the wagon against Montgomery to get rid of the bike path, of all things.
We need to remember these names in the next election – Valerie Plante’s head will probably roll but a lot of political characters just flip parties.
dwgs
Surely it’s just a coincidence that a few days before these new charges came about Annalisa Harris filed a complaint with the CNESST. Also, Sue Montgomery is holding McQueen’s feet to the fire because she found out that money which had been earmarked for the Decarie / de Maisonneuve intersection had been spent elsewhere.
walkerp
I agree with your analysis here, Jack. This most recent move of piling on of charges really does look like a tactic to increase pressure rather than any actual attempt to get at the truth and fix the issues in the running of the borough. I am leaning my support from the middle to several ticks towards Sue Montgomery.
Tim S.
I know nothing about Stephane Plante or any of the bureaucrats. I have met and seen in action most of the elected officials, and if all five councillors – who come from different backgrounds and have their own reasons to not like or cooperate with each other – are united against Montgomery, then I’ll tend to lean to their side. Is there any other issue on which Lionel Perez and Valerie Plante agree?
Ian
That’s what they want you to think.
This is exactly the same treatment Giuliana Fumagalli is getting in V-SM-PE… Once PM circles their wagons, they will stonewall everything to make you look ineffective, even if it means voting along with the opposition, even if it means stuff like bike paths or tenants’ rights gets the heave-ho.
“Une séance extraordinaire du conseil d’arrondissement aura lieu demain, le jeudi 22 octobre, à 9h. La période des questions est ouverte.
Suite à mon véto à la dernière séance du conseil d’arrondissement, les élu.es seront à nouveau invités à voter sur la motion déposée conjointement par Ensemble et Projet Montréal pour autoriser la fusion des logements dans l’arrondissement.
Pourquoi suis-je la seule dans notre arrondissement à vouloir protéger les locataires des évictions abusives alors que nous vivons une crise du logement sans précédent? Je n’arrive toujours pas à comprendre les motivations de mes collègues !
Si Projet Montréal voulait, on pourrait tellement en faire plus dans notre arrondissement!”Giuliana Fumagalli
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Kate
The city can’t give a number for the number of parking spaces removed in the course of road changes since Projet won the 2017 election.
Ian
As I’ve said before, for a party that claims to be predicated on urban planning, they aren’t very good at it. Regardless of their motivation or long term plans this is exactly the kind of thing they need to keep track of to parade the numbers in support of their ideas. If they don’t know the numbers, what kind of “planning” are they doing, how can i be sustained, how does i fit within other long term goals, etc. ? This is ridiculous.
steph
I don’t think their goal has ever been to “remove parking spaces”. Their goals have been to provide better use of the public space. The question is in bad faith.
Ian
I think you misunderstand – my point is that if they aren’t even keeping track of something as simple and obvious as parking spaces, what kind of data are they collecting to support their plans? What numbers are informing their decision-making processes?
You can’t just undertake urban planning on the basis of gut feelings and political instinct, that’s what Drapeau did, and look at the mess he made.
Chris
>what kind of data are they collecting to support their plans?
That cars contribute massively to climate change is well supported by existing data. As is the fact that the convenience of travel by car requires fast, easy, and cheap parking. It’s all been well known for decades. Therefore, reducing car parking availability makes car travel less attractive.
That said, they absolutely should count how many they’ve removed. Personally, I suspect they have, and are just lying. They’ve maybe decided any damage from lying will be less than the damage from headlines like “Sky is falling! 1000000 parking spots removed!”
Ian
That you happen to agree with some of their conclusions is coincidental, and could flip at a moment’s notice – look at PM in NDG, voting to remove the bike path.
I’m more into accountability than populism.
Chris
Ian, you said “What numbers are informing their decision-making processes?” I’m saying, in this specific case of removing car parking, all the data necessary has been available for decades to know that it’s good policy.
In the general case, I agree that data is needed, or at least preferable, before making policy.
Populism? You think removing car parking is populist?!
CE
It’s possible that the city doesn’t know how much parking there was before. When I was studying urban planning, I had a class where we were all broken up into teams and given segments of downtown where we were supposed to count all the parking spaces. Our prof sent our data to the city, he said they had no idea how many parking spaces (or what kind of spaces) existed downtown. This was about a decade ago so they might have a better grasp on it.
I agree with Chris though, they likely have some idea and don’t want to disclose it as some media outlets will predictably pounce on it and make a big deal out of “losing parking spaces” which they will then try to connect to struggling business and the “death of downtown” and whatever other doomsday scenario they can come up with.
Ian
Luc Rabouin openly campaigned on getting rid of at least 500 paid parking spaces, it’s not that much of a secret.
Perhaps Hanlon’s Razor is the best answer to the question of whether PM is lying or not – “never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity”
dwgs
If the city has no idea how many parking spots they have then how do they set the rates in their contract with Stationnement Montreal? I would think it pretty important to have some accurate accounting of your revenue streams.
Ian
A good portion of those parking spaces aren’t metered parking, but stickered residential parking. It was reported that 800 residential parking spaces were removed on Bellechasse alone – though I now wonder where this number came from. I’m sure in neighbourhoods where there is no sticker parking like the Point they probably really don’t keep track of residential parking at all – if this article is any indication.
Ephraim
If you don’t have it as part of an accounting system, it’s open for corruption.
Every parking spot should have a value. If it’s metered and if it isn’t. And everyone should be paying for the spaces that they need. You assign a value to each spot, each hour, etc. You then add to the budget of the STM, the police, etc. All of them, the cost of the spots they CURRENTLY use. And then BILL them for those spots. From then on, everyone pays. If the police want an extra spot… request and pay for it (and the cost of moving the signs). If they don’t need it, they can hand it back to the city (and pay the cost of moving the signs) and then not having to pay for it. This way we have full accountability of all the parking.
Ian
…and therein lies the rub. Montreal politics has historically been predicated on laziness and corruption. Knowing that nobody has a clue what the hell is actually going does not instil confidence.
I completely agree with Ephraim – we need to start actually keeping track of stuff around the city. Our only other option is go around spouting half-baked ideas about poorly interpreted studies from some other place, opening us up to the kind of corrupt misdirection we are all too familiar with.
To answer your question, Chris –
“Populism? You think removing car parking is populist?!”
In the way Projet is doing it? Absolutely. It’s obvious that climate change is real and private car ownership is out of control, but PM cloaks and massages their decisions in so many ways it’s silly – and to now see they don’t even truly measure the results to base future decision-making on, or even to simply use for advocacy… well, that’s pretty disappointingly sophomoric, to say the least. They won’t even admit they are anti-car, and that one of their main platforms is to remove parking. It’s ridiculous. That they are all stick and no carrot but won’t even admit is just pathetic.CE
To clarify, by “parking spaces” I meant all of it: Metered curb, unmetered curb, surface parking lots, parking garages, underground garages, private driveways, backyard spaces, etc. I’m sure Stationnement de Montréal knows exactly how many metered spaces they have.
Ian
Agreed. As I said, I’m sure in neighbourhoods where there is no sticker parking like the Point they probably really don’t keep track of residential parking at all – if this article is any indication.
But as Ephraim pointed out, this is crucial to creating and presenting informed policy.
Ephraim
And I’m sure that if they did this, we would see a whole revolution in problem solutions. The police would suddenly need less spaces, the city departments, would need less spaces. The STM might change where bus stops are and how long they are. We would have a real accountability on so many parts of this. And when you asked for a permit to build and had to use parking spots, boy would you minimize the amount of time that you used those spots, if they had a daily cost.
The other part of this, I want to know how many parking spots are being used by city employees for their personal vehicle and if the city is either charging them for the usage of the parking spot, or sending them the tax documents for the parking spot, because that is Quebec law. A free parking spot is legally a benefit and TAXABLE. So if they aren’t paying for their parking and they aren’t getting tax papers, then we have a case of tax evasion.
david292
+ 1 on Chris’ first comment especially. They have that data somewhere, but there’s just no incentive now to release.
david292
And good. Get rid of the parking spaces. If the data make that more difficult because of the politics of an involuntarily merged city, then suppress the data for now.
Ian
Careful what you wish for, autocracy is a two-edged sword.
Like I said…
You can’t just undertake urban planning on the basis of gut feelings and political instinct, that’s what Drapeau did, and look at the mess he made.
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Kate
Public markets say they had a satisfactory summer season even without tourists. Local folks were home more and cooking more, going by social media, so that must have helped.
Ian
I guess it also shows that restaurants aren’t buying their produce from the markets.
A lot of people I know were heading up to the J-T Market on weekends just for the sake of something to do. I suspect that there was a lot more exploration of the city with people not being able to go anywhere for vacations all summer unless they own a cottage.
Glad to hear the markets did well in any case!
CE
Very few restaurants buy from markets. Chefs from a few upscale restaurants might make a show but even those ones get most food delivered from suppliers. The majority, even many upscale places, get everything delivered by companies like Hector Larivée.
Ian
Good point, I was thinking more of the fancier places that claimed this sort of thing – bu of course there were never that many of them to start with.
For that matter, unless things have changed since I worked at Atwater Market, the vast majority of produce you see in the stalls comes from the same depots the grocery stores buy from.
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Kate
Valérie Plante says nothing’s off the table when it comes to providing winter refuges for the homeless, but she doesn’t give out any concrete news in this short report.
Ian
But how will they know?Are they keeping track of this?
It’s these kinds of empty pronouncements that make PM look like they are on the right track but lets them remain mysteriously unaccountable.
steph
keep track of [i]what[/i]? Ian, you seem axed to point out that anything without hard data on everything should be unelectable. It’s part comical, yet part bot with an agenda.
Ian
If there’s no data or clear offers on the table, it’s empty virtue signalling, which PM has proven themselves to be exceptionally good at. If you can’t see that, it makes me suspect your ability to see what’s going on right in front of you – maybe your perception is clouded by your own agenda.
I mean really, what is even the point of making a statement like this without concrete news?
steph
You think the mayor had a press conference to specifically make this announcement? The oppositions opposition to everything is royally tiresome. Blame LaPresse for thinking Lionel Perez’s lame “gotcha” questions are newsworthy, not PM for answering.
Ian
Platitudes don’t put food on the table.
I don’t see what Lionel Perez being a contrarian (again) has to do with the fact that Valerie Plante is virtue signalling (again).
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Kate
According to Quebec, the Turcot is now rebuilt on time and within budget.
The promised footbridge from NDG to St-Henri never materialized and I don’t know whether there’s any chance it ever will.
John B
“the interchange is now completely open for business.” *
Provided you’re in a car, and on the highways. If you’re on a bike or on foot, or on a surface street or bike path near the interchange, you’re still running into road closures and detours.
Dominic
Not sure about that, large sections are still closed every weekend!
Kevin
It’s only Quebec finished: it’s not paved, many lanes are still closed, and the landscaping is incomplete.
Kate
Even TVA only ventures to say la fin du chantier approche.
jeather
Interesting because it was shut for construction tonight.
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Kate
New Covid infections in Quebec remain above 1000 daily. There’s a new drive-thru testing centre down the east end. Health professionals blocked the Jacques-Cartier bridge Monday morning demanding better working conditions. Thirty inmates of a CHSLD in Brossard and 11 of its workers have tested positive. The U.S. border is closed at least until November 21. Authorities are worried about the impending winter of locked-down inactivity.
We won’t know for a couple of weeks whether the current state of affairs is succeeding in flattening the curve of the second wave.
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Kate
Mohawk communities around Montreal demonstrated on highways around town Sunday to show their support for the Mi’kmaw lobster fishermen in Nova Scotia, whom police pretty much left to their own devices against a mob of angry white men, who burned down their building. The BBC sums up the situation for outside observers, which includes most Montrealers.
Mark Côté
I heard on CBC that police “trained in de-escalation” are being sent to the area… which I guess means the majority of police aren’t particularly skilled in how to de-escalate situations. :\
Chris
Riiiggghhht. Because de-escalation training is binary, without various levels of expertise.
Ian
Actually Mark is correct, de-escalation training exists for a reason. Most rank-and-file officers only receive limited training in this area.
For instance:
The RCMP’s special class on de-escalating situations
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Kate
The Journal says 300 people are still toughing it out in the homeless camp on Notre-Dame East.
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Kate
Six people attending a Hampstead synagogue on Sunday were ticketed $1,500 each for breaking distancing laws.
GC
“They treated us like we were thieves or something” I’m pretty sure thieves get arrested–not fined. It sounds like they were treated more like people running a red light. I.e., needlessly endangering others.
jeather
Weird translation bug.
“No matter what you do in life you shouldn’t be empecher de prier you can’t force a man not to pray”Anyways they weren’t being forced not to pray, they were being forced not to pray indoors in a group in a private home. (It seems like the problem is that they were treating the private home, where visitors are not allowed, as a synagogue, where up to 25 people would have been allowed.)
Kate
I noticed that, jeather. I think it’s possible the person actually said that and was transcribed exactly. And you make an important point about the situation.
steph
In the video, they play the phone call interview with the home owner, It’s his actual quote where he switches between english and french mid sentence (it’s wonderful!). Not a translation issue.
The written article says “many of his congregants quietly left” while the video makes adds that “half the congregates left without being noticed by the police” I can imagine the scene with the police saying “those that leave now -we didn’t see you” and then they gave tickets to everyone that wanted to be stubborn and defend the point that it’s a permit issue… It’s the type of police tolerance I expect in Montreal.
jeather
Oh cool! I didn’t watch the video. The seats indoors seem awfully close to each other, though.
Chris
So they’re admitting to running this place for 5 years without a permit to operate as a house of worship, but no word on getting ticketed for that. Must be nice to admit such things with no consequences!
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Kate
The trend for Montrealers of means to move to the country or to smaller towns seems to be accelerating.
Dominic
Definitely caught up in that as well, moving from Old Montreal to Monteregie since my office said there would be very few people coming in until a vaccine was available. No point in sticking around in a small 2 bedroom apartment when I’ve got at least another year of working from home. I’ll miss walking to work if-when this is over and settled.
Kate
Oh no, Dominic! You’ll have to start reading Montérégie City Weblog now.
Dominic
I’ve been reading every day for 5… 6… 7 years… You’re stuck with me 😛
dwgs 10:32 on 2020-10-20 Permalink
That piece by Christopher Curtis was well written and presented all sides fairly, a nice change from what we usually read. Also, this quote struck me, ““You have citizens sometimes who come to the camp to play police and it’s not always a good idea for people to do that,” said Dave Chapman, who runs a nearby homeless day centre. ”
I’m pretty sure we can change ‘not always’ to ‘never. Yeesh, why would someone do that?
Ian 10:53 on 2020-10-20 Permalink
Interesting that the municipal police have to do the bidding of the provincial ministry.
Also interesting that this follows directly on the heels of the Turcot officially declared “open for business”
Chris 10:59 on 2020-10-20 Permalink
Interesting how? A property owner reports trespassing on a Montreal property, and so the Montreal police respond. Pretty straightforward it seems to me. Why involve the SQ?
Ian 11:03 on 2020-10-20 Permalink
Orders to remove the camp immediately came form the Ministry of Transportation.
“Police sources say commanders at nearby Station 12 and Station 20 resisted the idea of mowing the camp down. They say the push came from Transport Quebec.”
Chris 11:17 on 2020-10-20 Permalink
“Orders”? Transport Quebec owns the property. People were trespassing on it. Transport Quebec reported it to the police. The police probably said “Oh come on, you’re hardly using the property, give them a break”. The MTQ probably said “You have an official complaint of illegality, it’s my property, enforce the law”. I wouldn’t call that “orders”, the journalist’s word “push” is much better. At a certain point, the police have to enforce the law when a complaint is received.
“Immediately”? Article says “The camp had been in place for years”. Seems the MTQ was actually pretty tolerant, until this alleged machete incident I guess.
Ian 12:00 on 2020-10-20 Permalink
I literally quoted the article, dissect that quote as you will. It certainly sounds like the catalyst to immediate action was the Ministry, but you are probably right in thinking there are many factors involved. I’m sure the cops on the scene didn’t want to be seen as the bad guys.
MarcG 12:02 on 2020-10-20 Permalink
To be fair, Chris was taking issue with the sentence which was not a quote.
dwgs 12:03 on 2020-10-20 Permalink
Interesting in that the property owner is the Ministry of Transportation and generally speaking it’s the SQ who patrols MT roads and property.
Ian 12:05 on 2020-10-20 Permalink
Exactly, but I’m not interested in arguing about it haha
Mull Again 12:09 on 2020-10-20 Permalink
We could all be homeless a year from now, so let’s promise not to pitch our tents anywhere that they could interfere with traffic.