The REM de l’Est is not only worrying people about what it will do to downtown Montreal, but how it will disfigure Sherbrooke Street East all the way out to Pointe-aux-Trembles.
Updates from August, 2021 Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts
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Kate
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Kate
Excellent Patrick Lagacé piece Monday on the danger of the radicalized.
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Kate
Shuyee Lee reports on Twitter about the Esplanade Tranquille downtown, on Ste‑Catherine at Clark. CultMTL also has a report. The new square was inaugurated on Monday.
Joey
The skating rink is a good addition. Not sure the city needed to develop build for a flagship/celeb restaurant though. Eight million sounds insane for this project. Good times for organized crime, I suppose.
Kate
Eight million doesn’t buy much these days. We think about what a sum like that would do for us personally, but when it comes to acquiring land, paying the lawyers, paying city hall salaries, dealing with the old infrastructure in an area like that, fixing it up, paying the engineers and designers, doing whatever PR is needed around the project – government does have to think about informing us how they’re spending the money – yeah, it adds up, quite without any rakeoffs to the boys.
Whatever can be said about city hall now, I don’t believe it’s tied to the mafia like in the days of Tremblay. I’m not saying there might not still be a few snow removal or landscaping contracts in a couple of boroughs that may be handed out to shady businesses, but it isn’t like it was, and fatalistically assuming city business will always be corrupt is a great way to make sure it always will be.
Meezly
I think you guys missed a digit? wasn’t the final price tag almost $80M?
I’m sure it’ll be nice when I see it with my own eyes and will definitely check out the rink come December, but looking at the images… for that price, the finished space seems… underwhelming.
Joey
Sorry typo. It’s eighty (80) million.
Kate
Oof.
Well, that’s a bit different. But I still don’t think it necessarily means the mob.
The problem with public works in our time is scope creep. One example I always think of was the plan to upgrade the Lafontaine Park outdoor theatre about ten years ago. Bit by bit they added more and more features so that to a fairly simple plan to make the seating more comfortable and the band shell type structure more stable, they were tacking on high-tech multipurpose lighting and projection equipment and I don’t know what all else, and the whole idea got so expensive it fell down of its own weight.
Likewise, in George-Etienne-Cartier square, they needed to rebuild the swimming pools, which were crumbling. But then they started adding features to the park chalet, meeting rooms for community groups, other stuff I don’t remember. The project did, I believe, go forward, but it took a hell of a lot longer than originally promised, and deprived the area of a pool for at least one summer.
Like the periodic addition of features to the Botanical Garden, every individual feature taken on its own is worthwhile and useful, and its champions will jump on the opportunity to get something built. But it always makes every project more complicated and more expensive than it sounded like it was going to be.
Joey
It almost sounds like the mafia dictates that major public works, for which they make boatloads of money, creep ever larger. The mobsters get a cut of a bigger pie, politicians get to build more legacy things (and have to make fewer and fewer decisions) and the citizens are stuck with the tab. Wouldn’t be so terrible if the quality of the work wasn’t so terrible.
Kate
Joey, if I saw any evidence that the mafia was dictating things, I’d post it. But I don’t. Occam’s razor suggests that bureaucracy alone is the more likely culprit.
DeWolf
Beyond the usual overruns due to delays and inflation (keep in mind this project was meant to open a year ago), the high price tag is because there is a storage facility underneath the square that will be used by festivals to keep their equipment. That, combined with the geothermal heating for the pavilion and refrigeration for the rink, added to the price tag.
Also, the pavilion will have change rooms, washrooms and other public facilities, not just a restaurant. And there’s no mention of a fine dining or celebrity restaurant so I’m not sure where Joey got that impression.
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Kate
Issues surrounding the Ray-Mont plan to build a logistics terminal in Hochelaga have been simmering for awhile. Nobody denies that it would be good for the port, but there are two issues: the piece of land is now covered with trees, in an area without much green space, and the operation of a busy 24-hour transit terminal a few yards from residential streets would become a chronic problem.
Last week, Metro looked at federal election angles, and now Denis Coderre says airily that he would buy the land, in an obvious ploy to buy some votes. Curiously, the land and permits were promised to Ray-Mont during Coderre’s stint as mayor.
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Kate
Linda Gyulai inquires into the murky nature of SPVM petty cash expenses. The police claim that certain expenses disappear because of a “glitch” is weak, but on the other hand, I should imagine a police force actually does need some unmarked money to quietly pay informers, off the books. So the situation may or may not be dubious.
JoeNotCharles
On a technical level. It’s actually completely believable that the expenses would disappear from the public database due to a “glitch” . I can think of two explanations for that off the top of my head without even knowing anything specific about the technology.
Just because it’s believable doesn’t mean it’s true, of course.
Kate
Could be a glitch, could be misfiled information, there are a dozen ways information like that could be misplaced in an outfit like the SPVM.
Unfortunately, it’s also a nifty and unrefutable excuse.
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Kate
A Mexican boxer in Montreal for something called a GYM Gala was knocked out so hard that she is in critical condition.
Couple of things strike me here.
That we still have a sport where people are encouraged to fight and knock out total strangers against whom they have no beef is kind of amazing. Of course people are going to be injured doing this, what do you think?
That we still have international sports meetings with physical proximity in the fourth wave of a pandemic is almost equally insane.
And, dare I say it, of course women want access to the same privileges as men, but having the privilege to punch the daylights out of other women in a ring is one that I don’t think we needed to aspire to.
Jeff
I tried a bunch of different sports as a kid, but the only one I really enjoyed, and the one that stuck with me was kickboxing. I just love fighting. Some of my favourite memories from my days in the gym were the ones where I was fighting and got hit, and I have a unique bond with the people who sparred with me. It’s something I can’t really explain. Maybe its something deep within a fighter that drives them. I can understand why the fighters do it, but like you said, it’s kind of sick that we pay people to give and receive permanent brain damage for entertainment. I don’t patronize UFC or professional boxing anymore because I feel like the fighters are exploited. These people, even when they don’t get carried out on a stretcher, are sent back to their families, to raise their kids, with serious, permanent physiologial problems.
Jack
I had the exact opposite experience. My Dad got transferred to California 52 years ago and immediately set me up in the Boy’s Club Boxing program. I was 9, they weighed me, ( I was a big kid ! ) taught me some rudiments. A week later I was sparring with a 13 year old Mexican kid with a mustache. He hit me so many times that falling backwards was my best option, so I did that till he got tired. I went home and made a scene and told my Dad I did not like getting punched in the face and I wasn’t going back. He said ok but you are going to play football, helmets seemed like a better option.
I feel for that lady, apparently her purse for that fight was $1800.00.steph
Many fighting sports are illigal. Boxing is legal because of the gloves: R. v. M.A.F.A “140 grams in mass protect the combatants from serious harm” & “adequate safety standards are met.”. I think it’s time to update the law.
Nick
We could all just stay in the womb until the final week of pregnancy then get aborted so we never have to face any of life’s ugliness.
Jack
Life is a flat circle.
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Kate
This morning’s storm caused several outages in the metropolitan area and the Hydro-Quebec map still shows quite a few orange dots.
I was shaken awake by an almighty thunderclap sometime after 5. Feels like we waited a long time for a good raging thunderstorm this summer – Environment Canada kept teasing us with “risk of thunderstorm” and then nothing.
Daniel D
Same here. Got jolted awake by some very local thunderclaps.
It’s interesting to power up https://www.lightningmaps.org in real time during a storm and see how close those strikes really were.
GC
There was some memorable thunder and lightning around 5 AM.
It definitely seems like we’ve been warned about a lot of storms that never really happened this summer. Or they were highly localized. Someone in St-Henri would tell me about thunderstorm conditions where they live, but in the Plateau I’d only see a drizzle.
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Kate
Although the mental health of Montrealers registers as lousier than other Quebec residents, it has improved a little since spring. That’s hardly a surprise, as most of us are bound to have felt better over the summer, if only by being outside after the long confined winter of 2020-2021.
dhomas 05:13 on 2021-08-31 Permalink
Sherbrooke Street from Honoré-Beaugrand to Georges-V is actually a pretty lively street with lots of businesses and some homes. It would need some work to make it a bit more pleasant to the locals, but the potential is there as it’s really a commercial artery with lots of residential surrounding it. An elevated train is NOT what it needs. Sherbrooke street itself is already pretty hostile (it’s basically a 6-lane highway with stoplights) and, before the REM, I was hoping something would be done to discourage motorists from using it as an alternative to the Met and Notre-Dame.
East of Georges-V, you’ve got Montreal-East which is all refineries, so put it in the air, who cares. Actually, there’s a pipeline company that runs aerial pipes perpendicular to Sherbrooke, so they might care. It will be interesting to see how they get around that.
Starting around St-Jean-Baptiste it turns back into a commercial artery, similar to how it is in Tétreaultville. They’ve actually made a lot of progress in greening up the street in this area, with lots of large-ish trees growing on the median (which will need to be cut down to make way for the REM).
Everyone worries about downtown because that’s where the money is. They don’t seem to care about the impact this will have on the actual people living in Tétreaultville and Pointe-aux-Trembles. Why is it that they can build it underground up to Montreal-North from l’Assomption metro, but not out East?
Ephraim 05:22 on 2021-08-31 Permalink
Why didn’t they just use Soligny, which already has a train line running on it, they could lay it to the side of the train line, if they can’t buy the land. Runs from Dickson going east. Then goes up to Sherbrooke street near the refineries (or continues along Prince Albert, since it’s a branch).
dhomas 06:01 on 2021-08-31 Permalink
That’s a good point, Ephraim. They’re already going along Souligny where it’s a pseudo-highway/bretelle to the 25. I wonder if they’re using the existing train line or if they’re building alongside the highway infrastructure.
But I think they really wanted that intermodal station at Honoré-Beaugrand. Plus, they would miss out on the Contrecœur station this way.
Still, they would have room to build here. A station at Souligny / Honoré-Beaugrand and another close to the Annie Pelletier pool. Buses could start at the REM station and swing by Honoré-Beaugrand so they service both.
DeWolf 09:16 on 2021-08-31 Permalink
What was CDPQI’s rationale for rejecting a tram-train approach? Since the REM de l’Est would be a completely separate system from the original REM, I don’t see why they need to use the same technology. It seems like such overkill, especially since they’re planning to run tiny little two-car trains.
Kate 10:11 on 2021-08-31 Permalink
CDPQ Infra doesn’t have to give a rationale, DeWolf.
Ephraim 12:27 on 2021-08-31 Permalink
CDPQ Infra doesn’t want the expense of drivers. Being at street level would mean that it would cross traffic and need a driver.
david255 14:27 on 2021-08-31 Permalink
Not just the cost of drivers. Running these surface rail trams are slow, inefficient, and they don’t pull in the fare revenue to justify themselves.
As I wrote elsewhere, I was recently down in Arizona for a while, and I rode the Phoenix and Tucson surface light rails – which are great and efficient as far as they go – and the Waymo One driverless taxi service. That Waymo, or any other similar service – Uber/Lyft/whatever – is going to totally destroy the market for these surface-level trains there.
Basically, it’s just a waste of money for us to invest in those. At the cost and farebox recovery, only buses could match the coming revolution that the automated taxes will bring.
So, yeah, the smart transit money is on speed, and I think also on pleasantness of the trip – elevated is much quieter, quite a bit more enjoyable to ride, and has safer stations. Which is what the REM people are shooting for.
Kate 20:19 on 2021-08-31 Permalink
david, once again you’re blithering. Nobody is talking about driverless taxis here and what, safer stations? Safer compared to what?
DisgruntledGoat 03:02 on 2021-09-01 Permalink
Grade-separation (running elevated rail rather than at traffic level) has advantages including increased capacity for both the rail and for the roadways and approaching roads at intersections, decreased interruptions in flow for everyone including pedestrians (think of the Mo West rail crossing as an example of the alternative), less vehicle-rail and pedestrian-rail interactions (safer).
Ground-level trams or trains like the existing rail we have do not have these advantages.
ant6n 07:58 on 2021-09-01 Permalink
The drivers represent a small amount of the cost for a metro. The. Again, the REM 2.0 would involve tiny trains which have to run very often, so there the cost may be relatively bigger
JaneyB 20:09 on 2021-09-01 Permalink
I can’t help but wonder what the CDPQI really wants. The elevated train is getting such flack from so many quarters. It’s an eyesore on R-L, it will wreck the lively main streets of the East etc. The plan looks like a trial balloon of some kind – just there to absorb fury while the CDPQI prepares a less contentious but still somewhat irritating alternative. Am I just jaded lol?