Taylor C. Noakes is not thrilled with the renovation of Phillips Square and what we got for $50 million, but he goes off on a tangent about wanting to get rid of the Edward VII statue because, you know, monarchy bad.
Updates from August, 2022 Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts
-
Kate
-
Kate
Quebec’s decision to allow foreign students to pay the same tuition as locals if they agree to study in the regions penalizes Montreal, the mayor says, agreeing with the Chamber of Commerce and bigwigs at the universities. But it is very CAQ.
-
Kate
The Union des municipalités du Québec agrees with Mayor Plante: Quebec’s cities and towns need more money to continue to provide services under crushing inflation.
-
Kate
It’s a Quebec City story but it’s all over our media: Cardinal Marc Ouellet has been accused of sexual assault, and La Presse says the pope was already investigating him.
Current joke on Twitter: Denis Coderre is going to replace the cardinal.
Chris
And accused by an adult woman, not an underage boy! Wonders never cease.
-
Kate
Notice that CTV, reporting on Tuesday’s official state of play from Quebec on Covid, headlines it that there will be no obligatory public health measures this fall, since they assume most people are more concerned about not having to wear a mask than, say, not getting sick.
Kevin
https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/status/1559586524777283585
I firmly believe that if the polio outbreak gets worse, we’re going to see people openly mocking the paralyzed.
Tim S.
I would very much like there to be clear messaging about what might happen in the next few months and more encouragement of the “recommended” measures. That said,
1) the headline and article say there are no “plans” to introduce obligatory health measures, not that there absolutely will not be any.
2) The poll Kevin cites actually has healthcare as the #1 priority, even if COVID specifically is last. I don’t see that as evidence that people don’t care. It just shows that there’s a lot going on right now.
Tim S.
The CBC article has far more useful information:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-vaccination-campaign-fifth-doses-1.6552374
-
Kate
Spotted on Facebook: Denis Coderre is teasing a return to public life to be announced Wednesday.
What do we think? Key Montreal riding for the CAQ?
Would the CAQ lure him with the gig of being minister responsible for Montreal?
Poutine Pundit
Oh God no! Please Lord no! Why doesn’t he just retire and disappear?
Spi
It had been speculated for many years that he would never make the move to the PLQ on the provincial level because too many members/MNA’s hate his guts and wouldn’t work him, considering that almost the entirety of the old guard at the PLQ is leaving, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s a candidate in a relatively safe seat on the island.
If he’s good at one thing it’s getting attention and if you’re the PLQ facing down 4 more years in the opposition, the spotlight might not be a bad thing.
Joey
Let’s hope this is about the Expos!
Patrick
Probably radio gig on 98,5 : https://twitter.com/kick1972/status/1559535707714211841
Kate
True, he doesn’t say political life. Let’s hope it’s radio.
-
Kate
L’actualité did a a big piece recently on Mathieu Bock‑Côté which I didn’t link to, but it’s worth reading Xavier Camus’s response, which is on Facebook but openly available. The article shows why MBC has a public and why the French like him; Camus shows us what’s behind the image.
-
Kate
CEGEPs are dealing with staff shortages, student residences are overwhelmed, and, on the primary level, school bus service may be disrupted by labour actions.
-
Kate
The Cirque du Soleil flies a row of national flags on its big top, including the flag of Russia. The Cirque says it flies the flags of the countries of origin of everyone in the troupe, but a representative of Ukrainian interests is not thrilled by the answer. A Russian flag among those at the Olympic park is also a minor hot potato.
dhomas
I get it that you can’t exclude the Russian performers just because they were born in Russia. They didn’t start the war. But, they could use the alternate Russian flag to both represent their Russian artists while also showing their displeasure with the current Russian regime?
This would show some imagination on their part, which fits in well since their “mission est d’invoquer l’imagination”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-blue-white_flagKate
I liked the idea of flying the old USSR flag at the Olympic park because it was Soviet Russia that participated in the 1976 Olympics. Wouldn’t work for the Cirque though.
DeWolf 23:50 on 2022-08-16 Permalink
“I’d really like to know exactly how $50-million was spent on Phillips Square.”
Good question, but we don’t get an answer. Noakes has a lot of opinions but sometimes I wish he’d spend more time reporting rather than opining.
Also… it’s a bit disingenuous to claim the lack of traditional benches is some kind of scheme to prevent homeless people from sleeping in the square. I wasn’t aware people slept upright? Because all the new seating in the square can easily be used as a bed.
I also take issue with the idea that lawns are necessary for a public space like this. (So does every plaza and piazza in Europe.) There’s a difference between a square and a park.
Janet 06:22 on 2022-08-17 Permalink
I may sound like Kate here… but lawns are necessary for our survival. With the climate crisis fast upon us, it’s insanity putting in more concrete and pavement instead of cooling greenery and surfaces that allow water to run off and be absorbed.
Tim 08:57 on 2022-08-17 Permalink
I have to repurpose Phil M’s post from yesterday: “Seriously? Lawns are necessary for our survival? I can’t deal with this site anymore.”
Kate 09:02 on 2022-08-17 Permalink
We’re just floating ideas, Tim.
My feeling about the square is that it’s heavy on paving stones, but it’s a central downtown square, not a park, and people will be crossing it indefinitely in all directions, so what else are you going to do? The planting on it has to be kept separate from the foot traffic.
Moses 09:43 on 2022-08-17 Permalink
We can use less land covered by dry heat-battery stone, yeah. Lawns made of picture-perfect imported Kentucky grass, that needs a lot of extra water and fertilizer to survive in Canada, we can use less of that too. I hope the city uses more low-maintenance native plants.
DeWolf 11:10 on 2022-08-17 Permalink
Green space is necessary for our survival. Lawns are not. Turf is high-maintenance, water-intensive and ultimately consumes more resources than it gives back to the earth. They’re obviously very useful and desirable in a park, but in a high-traffic area like Phillips Square, you’ll need to re-turf it every couple of months because it will wear down. (Which is exactly what happens to the lawn on the Parterre du Quartier des spectacles at Maisonneuve/Clark.)
Phillips Square was a pretty barren expanse before the renovation and the new version of Phillips Square has a lot more greenery than before, so I’m not sure you can claim it’s more environmentally destructive. Remember, this is what it looked like in 2020:
https://goo.gl/maps/4ELb2EMkq3NkbPfW9
Also, don’t forget that the project is only half finished, and in 2025 the vast asphalt expanse of Phillips Square Street and the Place du Frère-André will be ripped up and turned into a square with more trees and planters.
DeWolf 11:21 on 2022-08-17 Permalink
Since Noakes’ column doesn’t really answer the questions it raises, I thought I’d look into the $50 million and where it was spent.
23 new trees
Replacement of underground water, sewer, electrical and telecommunications infrastructure
Removal of abandoned underground toilets
Installation of fountain and related underground machinery
Restoration of the monument
Reconstruction of Union Avenue and Cathcart Street
Expansion of the square’s surface area
New street furniture, planters and paving
Is that worth $50 million? I honestly have no idea. Would love to hear from an architect or engineer. But if (as Noakes points out) it cost $5 million just to make and install a steel ring on Place Ville-Marie, it doesn’t seem outlandish that a complete reconstruction of a city square and all of its underground infrastructure would cost $50 million.
Kate 11:27 on 2022-08-17 Permalink
Yes, and keeping in mind that’s a very tricky location – there’s so much underground stuff going on in that area.
Remember when a slab cracked a few years ago behind The Bay, and it turned out nobody had a complete master plan of all the dependencies among the metro tunnel and wiring, the “underground city” and other building basements, water mains, sewers, electrical cabling, and so on? And now they’ve added the REM and a massive condo development to the immediate area!
Blork 11:28 on 2022-08-17 Permalink
Unfortunately, that article reads like so much of the content on CultMTL and similar rags, where the main point seems to be kvetching.
Editor: We need a good kvetch for today!
Reporter: What about the new Phillips Square? It looks great and has fulfilled almost all of the promises in the design, but I’m pretty sure I can find some things to kvetch about. You know, the usual things: cost, green space, park benches designed to terrorize the homeless…
Editor: Gimme 1200 words by sundown!
Blork 13:03 on 2022-08-17 Permalink
Personally I think the new Phillips Square looks pretty good (judging by the photos; haven’t seen it in RL yet). Echoing what others have said, it’s a square, not a park, and it seems to work well as a square.
The seating (“oversized cement curbs that ring the green spaces is what constitutes sitting space”) is perfect for a downtown square where people will usually just sit for a few minutes and then move on. (Gulp down a sandwich, have a smoke or a coffee, take a phone call, etc.)
The greenery is also good for a square. It’s decorative and functional (cooling); it’s not intended for languorously strolling in soft focus while feeling the dewy grass between your toes. (It’s a square, not a meadow.) And 20 more trees on a space that small is pretty good, I think. And remember that trees GROW, so they will be larger and will provide more coverage in the future.
DeWolf 13:07 on 2022-08-17 Permalink
Thing is, the benches aren’t even anti-homeless. They just don’t have backrests.
Honestly, this looks like a much more comfortable place to sleep than a traditional park bench:
https://uploads.agoramtl.com/original/3X/a/2/a22d8a1dc833597000d2b72b939581a8ad939fb8.jpeg
Taylor C. Noakes 13:11 on 2022-08-17 Permalink
Thanks for posting Kate. I’ll take the opportunity to answer a few of the questions here.
1. Urban Fabric is the name of a column I write for Cult MTL where I get to explore urban planning, architecture, municipal politics, and Montreal history. I try to find points of intersection where I can. In this case, there’s the history of the square, its recent renovation, and what I considered were a few missed opportunities, such as renovating the original WCs and the possibility of reconsidering its main feature, the monument.
2. It’s a column, not a report, though I report for Cult MTL as well. My goal here wasn’t to do a cost analysis of the park renovation to determine whether it was worth it, though I’ll certainly consider that kind of writing in the future. Without getting into the weeds however, the city still spent a lot of money beautifying one small part of the city when that money might have been better used elsewhere. I personally would prioritize about as much spending as possible on the housing affordability crisis, something I allude to in the article.
3. Personal bias: I suffered a pretty serious back injury a couple years ago and so I’m definitely in favour of more lumbar support and proper benches in public spaces, particularly those that can provide an unhoused person a nice place to sleep.
4. I have complete editorial freedom with Cult, I choose what I write about, what I report on, how often I make submissions etc. There’s no other publication that will let me write 1500 or so words criticizing a park renovation while blending in a deep dive on its history and further introducing the public to some of the more pressing questions from the world of public history and commemoration.
5. I think public spaces, architecture, monuments (etc) should be critiqued no differently than a concert or comedy show. Some will like them, others less so. I appreciate the feedback here.
Thanks for reading! Many more articles to come!
Taylor C. Noakes 13:26 on 2022-08-17 Permalink
@Blork – I agree to a point: it’s not unattractive, though I’m a bit surprised they weren’t able to get as many trees as was originally promised. I think they could have found more space for more trees had they tried a little harder. And personally, I’m not keen on keeping ‘the nature’ so thoroughly separated from the square – more integration would’ve been welcome.
Consider the plan for the ‘urban forest’ on McGill College (assuming they’re still planning on going ahead with that). It looks like they’re thinking of a much more fluid integration of greenspace. I’m not keen that they took the same approach to Phillips as they did with Cabot. Space uses are far too segregated.
And you’ll notice the city took a vastly different approach when they redid Place du Canada and, more importantly, Dorchester Sq, the latter of which doesn’t have the same rigid distinctions between grey and green. Both are city squares, no?
That said, I am looking forward to when those trees are mature. Like I pointed out in the article, the maturity of Place du Canada’s tree really surprised me this summer… I can’t count how many hundreds of times I’ve walked through there, pre and post renovation, but this year it really struck me we have a veritable urban forest. It’s quite the accomplishment. I was similarly struck by the maturity of the trees along the Lower Main, which IIRC were planted maybe 10-15 years ago. We’ve come a long way from the slash and burn approach of the 1970s.
DeWolf 13:37 on 2022-08-17 Permalink
Place du Canada is definitely a park, despite the name, and Dorchester Square is four times larger than Phillips Square (roughly 14,000 square metres vs 3,600 square metres). Given its relatively small size and high-traffic location, I really think more hard paving is appropriate for Phillips Square, and in general, hard landscaping has an important role to play in the city, especially if it’s well-shaded.
Sorry to hear about your back injury. I definitely agree that it’s important to have a mix of different types of seating. I remember 20 years ago, one of my main complaints about Montreal is that there was a real shortage of places to sit in public. Basically just the same box-standard park bench everywhere, and they were very uncomfortable and always in short supply. Now Montreal is probably the best city in North America in terms of offering a huge variety and abundance of public seating. The one shortcoming at the moment is that Montreal is still very shy about offering loose tables and chairs like you see in New York and Paris. This seems to be changing (eg the Esplanade Tranquille is full of them) but Phillips Square would be a very good candidate for having some of this type of furniture – which would also offer some alternatives to people to can’t sit without back support.
Good point about the trees. I wrote an article for the Gazette about elm trees recently (hasn’t been published yet) and I was shocked to realize the big elms on St-Laurent near Prince Arthur were only planted after the renovation in 2007. They’re so robust I had somehow assumed they were much older, even though I remember how the street was totally eviscerated for that (terribly managed) reconstruction project.
Blork 15:35 on 2022-08-17 Permalink
@DeWolf: Not only would those benches be comfortable to sleep on, but after waking the homeless can strip down and bathe in those fountain jets! FTW! 🙂
As DeWolf also points out, Place du Canada and Dorchester Square are much larger than Phillips Square, and they are designed differently and serve different purposes. Personally, I think the new Phillips Square looks fantastic (see DeWolf’s photo link above), and is perfectly suited to its setting. The separation of “grey and green,” as Taylor puts it, really works in at this scale and context, and allows for a different kind of plant that might be more sturdy and require less maintenance (although that’s speculation).
Complaining that a square is not the same as the square a few blocks away seems like complaining that hockey is not the same as baseball. Compare Trafalgar Square (very concrete, but open to the sky and great for large gatherings, etc.) and nearby Leicester Square (very green by comparison and more intimate and peaceful feeling) in London. Very different approaches to public space, serving different purposes, and both are really good for what they are. Each has its fans and its detractors, but at least there’s variety.