Plaza St-Hubert: Thumbs down on pedestrianization
The pedestrianization of Plaza St‑Hubert this summer was considered a success by the city, which plans to continue with it every summer for at least three years.
However, a survey by an accountancy firm found that 61% of the merchants along the stretch would rather not see pedestrianization return.
Maxime Bergeron sees this as a test case in whether consultation of residents or stakeholders in various situations ever has an influence on the decisions made about big changes in this city. His tone suggests he thinks not.
That said, 61% is not a massive majority. Bergeron suggests that restaurants and cafés with terrasses are keener on pedestrianization than specialized boutiques and services, which makes sense.
Incidentally, we had some discussion on this, specifically the difficulty of assessing the benefits and disadvantages of pedestrianization, back in September.
jeather 19:47 on 2024-11-20 Permalink
They don’t say how many merchants responded just “a high rate” did, and that 83% of 1700 residents like it — surely not only stores/restaurants get a say here? As always, I would like more provable numbers about how income changed as opposed to a bunch of store owners claiming something.
Joey 20:53 on 2024-11-20 Permalink
Bergeron’s bias (as usual) is showing through his data cloak…
DeWolf 23:16 on 2024-11-20 Permalink
If the number of people visiting St-Hubert increased by 85% but merchants report their sales were down 7.3%, there’s a serious problem with their business model.
I’m also mystified by the example of the tailor shop: “Son charmant atelier attire une clientèle de partout au Québec et même du nord-est des États-Unis, qui vient y faire tailler ou retoucher des habits.” So why would pedestrianization affect business? If somebody is willing to drive hours to get to this one very special shop, are they really going to be put off at having to park in the multi-storey garage one block away, as opposed to on St-Hubert itself? It’s not like it’s easy to find a parking spot right on St-Hubert.
St-Hubert has a lot of destination businesses, but unlike most commercial streets in Montreal, it also has heaps of parking nearby. There are three large surface parking lots, a four-storey parking garage and hundreds of spots on nearby streets like St-André, Bélanger and St-Zotique. Most are paid spots but if you walk more than two blocks it’s easy to find free parking, too.
I would really hate to see a pedestrianization project go ahead without the consent of merchants, but something needs to be done to get them on board because the situation is kind of ridiculous.
DeWolf 23:26 on 2024-11-20 Permalink
Also, I really don’t envy François Limoges. There’s some realpolitik here that is tough to figure out. 83% of residents support pedestrianization, so the logical thing for him would be to push pedestrianization through, because it enjoys enormous support from the people who actually have the right to vote in RPP. But 2025 is an election year, and what may be good for the local borough administration might be very bad for the city administration, because imagine the media campaign that will be orchestrated if Projet Montréal is seen to be pushing through pedestrianization against the wishes of merchants.
As usual, the people clamouring for consultation are really just asking for a veto over projects they personally dislike, because here’s a case where the population was thoroughly consulted and it resulted in a complete deadlock between two different interest groups. Now it comes down to deciding whose interests should take priority, which is why we elect leaders to represent us instead of having referendums on every little thing.
Kevin 23:27 on 2024-11-20 Permalink
Montreal needs more signs pointing towards parking structures.
The people who put up signs need to spend more time driving to understand just how invisible some signs are.
(If they don’t want to drive, I’ll put them on the back seat of my motorcycle and they’ll see how poorly placed some signs are.)
DeWolf 03:28 on 2024-11-21 Permalink
Wayfinding in Montreal is generally atrocious.
MtlWeb 08:38 on 2024-11-21 Permalink
My wife and I spent three nice afternoons on St. Hubert this year, primarily because of the street pedestrianization. Coming from Ville St. Laurent, we went twice by metro, once by car where we found residential parking near Everett. While we weren’t there to shop for wedding attire at this age, we did take the opportunity to try the various latino food that is readily available throughout St-Hubert and sat at the benches/tables that are provided’ also bought some gift items that we would have purchased elsewhere. There seemed to be a decent amount of pedestrian traffic amidst a welcome ambience each time. Considering that in the past 10 years previous to this summer, we had passed by once, perhaps twice, and only to pick up a smoked meat order thus no walking around, this no-car zone is what attracted us to visit.
Kate 09:58 on 2024-11-21 Permalink
I wonder whether the SDC looked at the numbers from the street fairs that used to be held for a few days, a couple of times a summer, and assumed that these numbers would be sustained over a longer pedestrianization. Whereas I suspect if everyone nearby got used to the pedestrianization, it would just be the new normal and there wouldn’t be anything novel going on from time to time.
Joey 10:55 on 2024-11-21 Permalink
I’m curious about the 7.3% figure. All we know about it is that it comes from a ‘document shown to merchants’ that was shared with Bergeron. We don’t know what period it was looking at, what it was compared to, etc. But, most importantly, on what basis are we supposed other accept this figure as if it’s comprehensive and accurate? Do we really think that each business shared accurate sales figures with their merchants’ association, which then weighted and analyzed them? If so, we’ll need some evidence…
DeWolf 11:14 on 2024-11-21 Permalink
Based on similar articles about Mont-Royal and Wellington, I get the distinct impression that many merchants are not comparing their figures year on year, but rather comparing them to other seasons in the same year. And yeah, not many people are getting tailored suits or wedding dresses in July.
Even year on year comparisons are iffy given we’re not so far out of high inflation and pandemic restrictions before that.
Ian 20:19 on 2024-11-21 Permalink
While it’s true that parking on St Huey is a sucker’s game as there’s lots of parking just off the main strip, it’s also true that PM are autocratic and do what they want. Sometimes we get useful street closures, sonetimes we get Alex Norris belittling people over popular trails, softball diamonds, bagels, whether ambulances can pass through Clarke, etc.
Nicholas 12:10 on 2024-11-23 Permalink
Kate, I don’t know how the Plaza analyzed the data, but the merchant’s association has automatic pedestrian counters (once you know what to look for, you’ll see them all around town). Here’s a case study page on the Plaza on the company’s website from years ago, so they have lots of data from over the years, before and after this change. The data is owned by the Plaza, but they could release it, but I would assume they have a representative cross sample.
DeWolf, business and property owners actually do have the right to vote in municipal elections. You have to have occupied or owned the property for at least 12 months, and only one person per business/property can vote. You get entered on the electoral list as a (physical, not legal) person, and because you can only be on each municipality’s list once (even in different boroughs), people who live in Montreal cannot take advantage of this, but people who live in one city and own a business or property in another can vote twice (or hundreds of times, if they have enough businesses or property). See article 47 of the municipal electoral law. Every single person I have told this to, whether in Quebec or not, thinks this is wild, and many have said it’s like a caricature of feudalistic capitalism or something, but it’s the law.