Best venue for watching election returns?
I have fond memories of watching election returns at the long-gone Skala. Do people still do this anywhere within hail of Villeray/Rosemont/Mile End?
So, here’s my thoughts on the latest polls.
Justin Trudeau didn’t live up to the hype, but few could’ve done. He doesn’t have the intellect and hard edge of his father, but he’s coping with a very different world.
It’s very cool, very trendy to sneer at Justin, and it’s been reminding me of all those high-minded, well-intentioned U.S. lefties who wouldn’t vote for Hillary because she wasn’t perfect – and look what happened there.
I will have trouble forgiving all the Dippers and Green voters if their stubbornness and perfectionism brings us a Tory government next week – even a minority one. When it comes to the crunch it doesn’t matter if Jagmeet Singh makes better promises and has higher ideals. What matters is not to let Andrew Scheer run Canada at a time when this country is one of the few offering a gleam of sanity. Both the US and UK are foundering under leaders who are incompetent at best and absolutely evil most of the time. We don’t want to elect them a little Canadian brother who’ll lead us down the same dangerous path.
It matters not to let the Conservatives run this country when it’s been shown there are fascists pulling some of its strings, especially not now with fascism on the rise in many places. It matters not to put climate change deniers into high places.
There you have it. Please vote carefully.
Michael Black 22:07 on 2019-10-16 Permalink
But if people always vote out of fear, no change takes place.
I think I’ll vote NDP because I’d like to see Jagmeet Singh as prime minister. By being himself, he challenges the anti-religious symbol law, and challenges those who think it’s a good idea. Just by himself, he represents people often left out.
There’s a lot more going on against Trudeau than than that he’s not a great leader. Lots of the cousins are disappointed about what happened to Puglaas, and things that aren’t really getting attention. It does seem that he doesn’t live up to the image he presents.
The fact that he made promises about electoral reform, and didn’t keep them may be a good reason you had to suggest “better Liberal than Conservative”.
Michael
ottokajetan 22:48 on 2019-10-16 Permalink
Kate, when would there be a Conservative leader situation where it would be OK not to vote Liberal? They’ll always be bad. But it’s an argument designed to keep Liberals in perpetual power. We can’t let fear stop us from voting for the more progressive choice.
Kate 23:03 on 2019-10-16 Permalink
Damn straight it’s voting from fear! I am afraid: of four years of regressive legislation, four years of (at best) inaction and (more likely) damaging changes on the environmental front, four years of gritting my teeth while watching Scheer.
Is it brave to vote in a high-minded way that leaves you feeling you did the right thing, even while the country slides down the tubes?
Go be brave then. Knock yourself out.
Patrick 01:21 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
Kate, I agree with you. The election is too close not to vote strategically in those ridings where a split progressive vote would let in a Conservative (or a Bloquiste, for that matter, if any of those ridings are competitive. As it happens, the riding in which, thanks to the new election law, I can now cast my ballot from outside the country, is solidly Liberal, but even so, I am not inspired enough by today’s NDP to vote for them, as I did years ago. Their position on Bill 21 is a big disappointment–not that the Liberals aren’t treading carefully too, but Singh’s contortions are embarrassing. Plus Jason Kenney needs a comeuppance. As for the energy question, there is no easy answer in a federal system in which the provinces pull in contradictory directions. Trudeau has made mistakes, but could any PM who doesn’t want to split the country really do better in these circumstances? If so, I’d like to hear how.
Tim 08:57 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
Kate, what evidence do you have that “fascist” money is behind the Conservatives? Or are you casually throwing around that loaded term to reference the Oil and Gas lobby?
nau 09:03 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
Kate, are you suggesting that there is a riding in Montreal that the Liberals could lose to the Conservatives? If so, which one? As far as I can tell, there aren’t any. Are there even any where the Cons are second outside of the far West Island where the Liberals already have more than 50% of all the votes? There seem to be a couple where the Bloq could beat the Libs, so perhaps there your vote Lib to keep the Cons away from power advice makes sense since the Bloq is the only real (if unstable) partner for the Cons. (beside the Libs themselves of course on all those center right issues where they agree). Of course, there’s at least one riding where it seems to be between the NDP and the Bloq, so there your advice could help the Cons. Plus another where it’s likely a three-way race Bloq, Lib, NDP race, so who knows which is closer to defeating the Bloq. Strategic voting is complicated and requires clear-headed reasoning and a lot of best guesstimating. Fear is not conducive to either of those.
Kate 09:21 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
Tim, I didn’t say money. I was thinking of news stories like this. People known from far‑right entities have filtered into the Conservative party and it’s been documented, but I have not kept links to the trail nor do I have time right now to seek them out.
JaneyB 09:58 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
I’m not sure what’s going on with this idea that JT is ‘not what he presents’. His government, with all its inadequacies, has presided over the second-best Indigenous-friendly govt in Canadian history. (Paul Martin’s was the most inclusive with the Kelowna Accord but it didn’t get passed in the end). Likewise, JT’s govt is the most environmentally ambitious in Canadian history, by far. By far! Seriously people, this imperfect progress – though serious progress nonetheless – could slip away in a blink. Strategic voting is key! Young voters: I’m looking at you.
Tim 10:07 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
I’m much more concerned about the influence of the Chinese Communist Party in our political system and in everyday life than some statistically ignorable number of fascists.
Mr.Chinaski 10:10 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
It’s like you never learn Kate before every federal/provincial election : that it’s not related to Montreal news. There’s enough political places on the web to talk about all this. Look at the above discussion, it’s goes nowhere and only brings the worse out of people.
Kate 10:35 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
Mr.Chinaski, the attention of journalists is inevitably focused on election campaigns as they hot up, so there isn’t as much interesting municipal-level news as usual, and I refuse to shut down the blog for these periods.
But more importantly, as Montrealers we need to foresee the consequences to our city of choices made at the federal or provincial level. The interaction of government levels can’t be neatly segregrated, but especially not during an election campaign. Housing, transit, environmental issues generally, have been subjects in this campaign and all have direct impacts on city life, and that’s not even mentioning the whole laïcité scrum that entangles all three levels of government.
With all this going on, you want me to restrict my blog to potholes and teenagers stabbing each other in the suburbs?
JoeNotCharles 11:28 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
Remember that you’re not voting for Trudeau or Singh or Scheer unless you happen to live in their riding. You’re voting for your local elected representative, and all that matters when strategically voting is what other people in your riding plan to do. calculatedpolitics.ca and 338canada.com both have riding-by-riding breakdowns (which don’t always agree with each other!) so I’d suggest checking both before making a decision.
If you’re in a riding where the NDP has a 5% chance and the Liberals and Conservatives are neck-and-neck, voting for the NDP is useless and might hand the Conservatives a victory. But if you’re in a riding where the Conservatives have a 5% chance and the NDP and Liberals are neck-and-neck, you have a choice to make, whether to support the NDP (assuming that’s your preference) and hope the Liberals get a minority without your seat, or play it safe and support the Liberals.
As nau says, I don’t think there are any ridings in Montreal where the Conservatives actually have a chance, but better to check your riding on the two sites I mentioned to make sure first.
jeather 11:49 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
I have never yet voted Liberal and Marc Miller, old high school friend of Trudeau, is not the candidate to make me change my mind. Might I vote differently in a different riding? Perhaps, but so what? And I won’t feel bad if my riding goes green or orange (all projections have it an easy Liberal win at this moment).
thomas 11:55 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
Of primary importance to me is not the local representative, but who obtains the most seats and gets to form the government. The first stated priority of a Scheer government would be to scrap the carbon tax which I view as regressive to the most important problem facing us. Talk of a Liberal/NDP coalition seems implausible since they would likely not be a majority, given the strength of the Bloc.
Blork 12:06 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
Also remember that you are not electing a friend or neighbour; it should matter little whether or not you “like” the candidates for PM. You are electing a government with a policy platform. Ignore all the ad hominem complaints and please only pay attention to policies and platform.
Mark Côté 12:48 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
Voting for someone you know are very likely not to get in can be a vote for the future instead. Many people will only vote for a party that has some sort of national support. That national support usually grows slowly, election by election.
Michael Black 12:59 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
Marc Miller at least learned Mohawk since he was elected, even gave a speech in the language in Parliament. I don’t think any other non-native has done that. Maybe a minor thing, but it matters to some.
Michael
jeather 13:19 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
I agree, he has done one really excellent thing. But he was parachuted in for the seat, I haven’t seen or heard of him other than the speech in Mohawk, and he was carefully silent throughout the brownface/blackface thing, which, given that some of the story was while JT was in high school, seemed meaningful. I was initially positive when the Libs were last elected but have been significantly disappointed with them since, and this MP hasn’t amazed me so much that I would vote for him despite not liking the party as a whole.
Chris 13:49 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
Everyone votes strategically, we just have different strategies. Mine is to let others vote for who they want, and for myself to vote for who I think is best. Definitely won’t be for Liberals. Breaking their electoral reform promise is enough of a reason for me.
Faiz Imam 16:04 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
I think keeping Sheer out of power is a laudable goal, but that does not mean “vote liberal no matter what”
We are in a parliamentary democracy. We do not elect leaders, we elect MP’s.
Its pretty clear that we are heading to a minority government situation. And its clear that even if the Conservatives have the most seats, they will not have a coalition that is able to govern.
If ridings go ndp or bloc instead of Liberal, that does not nessessarliy mean Sheer benefits.
I’m in a riding that is a fight between the Liberals and the Bloc, and I voted in advance polls last week.
DLA 16:29 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
HI everyone. This doesn’t pertain to the topic at hand but I was curious if anyone could answer this question for me: Do parties receive any type of funding as a result of votes cast for their candidates in an election? I’ve had this told to me numerous times by different people but I’ve been unable to find sources to confirm it. Thanks.
Alex L 16:40 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
Hi DLA, your question is quite relevant to the topic. The Conservatives abolished public funding of political parties back in 2011. So now, the parties that have fans with the deepest pockets (you can give up to 1600$ during an election year) are privileged. Curiously, this decision hasn’t been reversed by the Liberals.
https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1312238/financement-partis-politiques-elections-federales-2019
ant6n 17:49 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
Nowhere in Montreal do the Conservatives have any chance, voting Liberal does not prevent a conservative government. And let’s say a riding swings NDP instead of Liberal: if the conservative have a majority, then any Montreal riding won’t make a difference. If they have a minority, and the Liberals get a smaller minority than the Conservatives, well, then there’s always the chance of a Liberal-NDP coalition. In any case, a Conservative minority government would be ineffective. The main undesirable outcomes are a Conservative or a Liberal majority government.
In Montreal, voting strategic does not make any sense. And besides that, it’s essentially rewarding the Liberals for not getting rid of strategic voting by not implementing electoral reform.
“rudeau has made mistakes, but could any PM who doesn’t want to split the country really do better in these circumstances?”
Trudeau could’ve implemented electoral reform as promised, instead of scuttling selfishly scuttling the process when it didn’t go his way.
He could try to prevent the privatization of public transit infrastructure (REM), instead of nationalizing oil infrastructure (pipelines).
He could do proper carbon pricing instead of this watered down program the Liberals came up with.
He could definitely treat first nations people better.
Faiz Imam 19:18 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
Absolutely, and in fact this minority government situation gives us a historic opportunity. Having a minority liberal government, backed by the NDP, opens the door for many key policies that we had been promised but were never delivered.
Michael Black 20:44 on 2019-10-17 Permalink
I could vote for the first time forty years ago. I voted NDP, who actually was the father of someone I sort of knew. Nobody talked in terms of “strategic vote”.
I’m thinking we have been influenced by the internet. I never understood the strong split in US politics, until I had internet access starting in 1996, suddenly I at least saw how US posters were so adamant about their side. I do wonder if this existed in Canada, and it was onky in direct conversation, or if we’ve picked up habits from the US. I’d never vote Conservative, and thus pay little attention, but the demonizing I see in more recent tears also makes me think bad habits from the US.
There’s a limit on how much any party can change while in.power, and between voting and new legislation tge larger changes are often reset.
And let’s not forget that gaining power often limits how much a part can change, other matters intrude, so being in opposition often may be more effective at bringing new ideas than when a party is settled into power. The MCM were probably more effective when they had few elected councillors, as I recall tgere was disappointment when Dore was mayor.
Michael
Chris 19:37 on 2019-10-18 Permalink
Kate, this reminded me of you: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/18/justin-trudeau-fake-progressive-canada-election