Valérie Plante says that building taller than Mount Royal would be heresy, setting herself against Denis Coderre, who is planning to do just that.
“Denis Coderre est un homme des années soixante.” – Phyllis Lambert
Updates from September, 2021 Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts
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Kate
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Kate
Antivaxxers demonstrated midday Tuesday outside a high school in Montreal North. Brief item says François Legault is pondering a law to keep protesting nutbars at a distance from hospitals and schools.
Chris
Sure, they are nutters, but a law against protest is a very bad idea. Horrible precedent. One day they’ll use it against a cause you believe in.
Tim S.
I sort of see your point Chris, but adults really shouldn’t be allowed to target their demos at children.
Kate
It did cross my mind that a law like this would be prone to misuse. I do not trust the CAQ’s scruples.
Chris
The test of whether you truly believe in free speech is if you still believe in it for others that espouse views you oppose.
Let them protest, for all to see how weak their arguments are.
Suppressing them will just feed their victimhood complex, and perhaps even win them sympathy and new members.
Kevin
Protest that impinges on the free movement of people is already prohibited by law. It’s considered intimidation.
Specific laws banning protest around certain locations are decades-old, namely abortion-access laws passed in the mid-90s in a few provinces.
@Chris
Your argument is based on the supposition that people are making good-faith arguments and have fulfilled their responsibility to be educated on the subject.The people protesting in front of schools are a) making bad faith arguments and b) overwhelmed by hubris https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/2021-09-22/le-mathematicien-radicalise.php
Kate
You could presumably frame a law against demonstrating in ways that impede access to health care or intimidate minors.
Chris, you can’t expect a school kid to counter the “arguments” of angry adults waving placards – that’s nonsense. If those people were amenable to rational argument, they wouldn’t be standing outside a school trying to browbeat kids into refusing a scientifically validated health measure.
And you can’t reasonably expect a patient, or someone visiting a sick relative or friend, to deal with this nonsense either.
Tim S.
“If those people were amenable to rational argument, they wouldn’t be standing outside a school trying to browbeat kids into refusing a scientifically validated health measure.”
Exactly. Thanks, Kate.
H. John
As Kevin points out the criminal code already prohibits intimidation:
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-423.html
Chris makes, what I think is a valid point – that free speech and where it can be exercised, will inevitably suffer. The Montreal police aren’t as good as they are at kettling by accident.
But, I listened to Paul Arcand this morning talking about a 13 year old who was harassed by six adults as he approached a hospital for treatment.
At the end of the day, I don’t think this is a free speech issue.
This will not be easy.
I genuinely don’t trust the CAQ, and Simon Jolin-Barrette, the Minister responsible for eradicating human rights, to create a fair and balanced approach.
It will be interesting to see how they try to frame the legislation. They can’t protect it from a constitutional challenge if it strays into criminal law (which is a federal jurisdiction).
Chris
>You could presumably frame a law against demonstrating in ways that impede access to health care
Bonus: that framing should also work well to stop overworked nurses from protesting outside their hospitals.
>Chris, you can’t expect a school kid to counter the “arguments” of angry adults
But adults seeing coverage in the news can.
Tim S.
Yeah, it would be nice if the proposed law distinguished between people who belong to an institution and those who don’t. So nurses, students could be allowed to protest outside their own hospitals/schools, but not be targeted by outsiders (who should still be free to protest outside a legislature or other public space where they’re not impeding/targeting a specific group). I guess we’ll see soon.
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Kate
Some polling stations were slow to open Monday, and there are reports of long waits in some areas. Elections Canada remained understaffed, their decision not to mandate vaccination for their temporary workers possibly having backfired. Elections Canada has apologized to voters for the inconvenience.
The Montreal map hasn’t changed, including Quebec’s only NDP MP, Alexandre Boulerice, back in Rosemont with more than twice the votes of his closest competitor, a Liberal. In Hochelaga the race between the Liberals and the Bloc was fairly close as expected, but incumbent Liberal Soraya Martinez Ferrada was re-elected. La Pointe-de-l’Île has re-elected the Bloc’s Mario Beaulieu, still the only Bloc MP on the island.
And ex-Governor-General Julie Payette worked Monday as a scrutineer in Ahuntsic.
Mayor Plante says she’s happy to continue working with the Liberals but wants them to continue working on gun control.
Update: I’ve done some work on my list of Montreal island MPs. My guess is the cabinet won’t change a lot either, but I will keep that aspect up to date as news comes in.
dhomas
So, nothing much has changed. We have the same minority Liberal government, give or take a couple of seats. But one thing has definitely changed: the relationship Quebec has with the Federal government. Legault picked the wrong horse when he endorsed the CPC. Straight up telling Trudeau he doesn’t want to work with him puts Legault and Quebec in a pretty bad spot, with respect to the power dynamic.
In this federal election, the biggest loser was Quebec, as mentioned in this opinion piece:
https://www.journaldequebec.com/2021/09/21/le-quebec-dans-une-position-inconfortable
Merci M. Legault!Kate
Yes. Legault said Trudeau is dangerous for Quebec. Awkward.
PatrickC
I wonder if the Bloc would have lost a couple of seats if in the English leaders’ debate Shachi Kurl hadn’t confronted Blanchet so bluntly about Bill 21, giving him and Legault an opportunity to complain about Quebec bashing. Has anyone tried to analyze that?
I agree the law is discriminatory, but the question backfired badly.Josh
PatrickC: I think this is something that is perceived entirely differently by people outside of Quebec than by those within it. Most people outside of Quebec that I have spoken with saw nothing wrong with the question; she was just spitting facts.
steph
Considering we have a Provincial Liberal Party, it would be even more out of place if Legault had endorsed the Liberal party.
JoeNotCharles
There’s still a chance for a second NDP MP in Quebec: Berthier-Maskinongé’s BQ candidate is less than 1000 votes ahead, so mail-in ballots could put the NDP over the top.
Kate
I’d like to see Ruth Ellen Brosseau come back. She put up with a lot of bullshit when she first won in 2011.
Mark Côté
PatrickC: It was at least mentioned in the main CBC election article:
“There was no acknowledgement that he once again will lead a country divided by region. He said nothing about how the Liberals once again failed to make inroads in the Prairie provinces, or take advantage of a Bloc Québécois campaign that struggled to find a raison d’être until the final 10 days of the race, when backlash in Quebec over a question in the English-language leaders’ debate handed Yves-François Blanchet the opening he couldn’t create for himself.”
Chris
Josh, one can “just spit facts” in a variety of ways. Phrasing matters. Voters are not analytical robots, when you insult them, they take notice. Her first words were “You deny that Quebec has problems with racism”. What does she mean here? Relative to what? Is there zero racism? Of course not. But Quebec is one of the least racist places on this planet. Very easy to feel she’s implying you, your neighbours, your family, and your friends are raving racists.
Uatu
Meh. If you’re going to enact legislation then expect to live with the criticism that surrounds it. Calmly address what the critics claim and confidently stand behind it instead of crying about Quebec bashing which is rich from a political party whose whole raison d’etre is “Canada bashing”
walkerp
I don’t know about the planet, but from my experiences in Western Canada, Ontario and the Maritimes, Quebec is broadly speaking more racist than any of those places. Obviously hard to quantify, but the attitudes of Quebecers towards foreigners, while generally very positive and welcoming, also has the same sort of naive ignorance of B.C, in the 80s. It is a thing here that people who do not clearly signify as Quebec de souche often get asked “where do you come from?”
There is a reason that this is the only province making laws about what kind of scarves people can wear.
Chris
walkerp, try visiting India, China, northern Africa, the Middle East, and you’ll see the difference. I wish we were down to zero racism, but we’re doing better than just about everywhere. And it’s not “obviously hard to quantify”, there is all kinds of polling out there. See here for polling results of questions like ‘who would you not want as a neighbour?’.
And at the risk of being a broken record: religion in not a race. One’s race is an immutable characteristic that you cannot choose and cannot change. Religion you can choose and change, and people do all the time.
Kate
Chris, I feel like a broken record here myself: religion is often as deeply ingrained in a person’s inner identity as skin color is in their physical body. Religion also links many people into their family and their community. It is not so easy to change religions as you airily allege. Religion isn’t a pair of shoes or a hat.
walkerp
Chris, my first line is “I don’t know about the planet” which implies that I am specifically referring to relative levels of racism *within* Canada.
Just because people are worse than Quebec doesn’t excuse the behaviour here. Likewise, just because B.C and Ontario are somewhat more informed and conscious (again very broadly speaking) does not excuse the racism that exists in those provinces (which is still really bad when it comes to First Nations).
Anyhow all this comparing is stupid. We are here in Quebec, a wonderful amazing part of the world with really great people that is blighted by its cultural defensiveness that needs to harm other minorities to prop up its own insecurities. It’s wrong and harmful and needs to change.
david255 20:20 on 2021-09-22 Permalink
Lambert is one to talk. Has not made a positive contribution to Montreal in decades, and has instead on several occasions blocked very worthwhile project.
H. John 22:22 on 2021-09-22 Permalink
I read your comment three time thinking I’ve had a gin and tonic, this will not end well.
Then I looked up the Urban dictionary’s definition of your contributions:
Troll
Someone who deliberatly pisses people off online to get a reaction
So the best thing I can do is what everyone should do with a troll.
My answer to your post is……..
david2 19:02 on 2021-09-23 Permalink
Ah yes, a longtime pro-growth poster isn’t a fan of latter day Lambert because she’s been 100% anti-growth, how troll-like.
Ste. Phyllis taking potshots at Coderre for being retrograde is pretty rich, considering she hasn’t been relevant in at least two decades.