Concordia: sex pests or simple adult behaviour?
There’s a lot of talk this week about a climate of mistrust in the Concordia English department but I think people need to get a grip. These are adults we’re talking about – in some cases instructors not much older than students. University students aren’t minors needing to be protected. The university can only do so much to rule on relationships or sexual activity between consenting adults, even ones who later regret giving their consent.
Chris 10:28 on 2019-03-08 Permalink
What does “inappropriately dating students” even mean? Inappropriately hitting on students, I can understand. But once you are “dating” it’s by definition consensual, is it not?
The (unsubstantiated and anecdotal) impression I sometimes have is that they are less adults and more akin to precious snowflakes.
Kate 10:32 on 2019-03-08 Permalink
I don’t like the word “snowflakes” in this context so please don’t bring it here.
If instructors were dating students, some students may have had to learn the hard lesson that attractive people are more attractive than unattractive ones, and that being good-looking gives advantages in life. Yes, that’s kind of rough when the subject is supposed to be your writing, but in real life, a pretty face cuts you all kinds of deals. You have to learn this sooner or later. Life is not fair and a university can only do so much to level the playing field.
John B 10:39 on 2019-03-08 Permalink
> But once you are “dating” it’s by definition consensual, is it not?
Nope. An instructor holds power over the student, whether directly in class or indirectly through colleagues. This power means that choices about entering into or staying or leaving a relationship, and behaviour in the relationship, may not be based on what the student really wishes, but on that following their true wishes will harm their academic, (or non-academic), careers. It the same dynamic as people dating their boss at work.
Of course real life is messy, and there are plenty of examples of honest, happy, relationships that started between teachers and students, but there are also plenty of relationships that are exploitative in some way.
Kate 10:53 on 2019-03-08 Permalink
John B, someone in a pairing always has the upper hand in some sense. They’re the better-looking, they have more money, their family has more clout, they have more talent. Whatever.
The thing about this story is that it cannot possibly only go one way. A student uses his or her wiles to get better marks from a malleable instructor. Another student who has not been able to use their wiles (for whatever reason), or who has a crush on the instructor, sees this going on and becomes embittered. Passes are made, accepted then regretted, or rebuffed and resented.
But this is always going to be happening and you can’t use bureaucratic logic to delete this part of human nature. I hear students complaining now, what I hear is “I wasn’t able to get my way” or “I gave in but it didn’t get me anywhere.” They can’t seriously expect the university to police all interactions between adult human beings.
JaneyB 11:02 on 2019-03-08 Permalink
I think if you are dating, it is probably public to some degree. People around will discount any instructor’s extreme views about the student on the basis of the emotions involved. Students who get involved with their teachers during term (!), should know the risks and be reminded that their involvement will be interpreted as consent, regardless of any messy outcome. Grad students should be moved to another advisor by the dept because that’s just suicide.
I prefer that people be warned about what they’re getting into rather than making legislation about work relationships between adults. Guidelines, sure, why not? But if consent requires comprehensive equality between two peoples’ wealth, beauty, charisma, connections etc first, then consent will be impossible.
DeWolf 12:10 on 2019-03-08 Permalink
I think there are two issues at play. One, It’s ethically pretty dodgy for a professor to be dating a student they are currently teaching or supervising. Outside the term, sure, they’re both adults – but otherwise it’s a conflict of interest, which I think is a big part of the concern here.
The second is just plain creepiness, which leads to dysfunction. I imagine that if a particularly lecherous professor is constantly hitting on his students, it gets pretty annoying for those students, and it doesn’t create a very healthy or productive learning environment.
Ian 12:56 on 2019-03-08 Permalink
Call me nuts but I imagine that if it’s known you can screw your teacher for a better mark it kind of taints the academic integrity of the institution, consensual or not.
walkerp 13:21 on 2019-03-08 Permalink
There is a massive power and gender imbalance in university classrooms, especially in creative writing in Canada. You should read Emma Healy’s essay. These profs come off as pretty nasty, basically cultivating a culture of predation where they can groom and get their pick of fairly naive young women. It becomes very hard to define what is consensual, but I think it is fair to say that it is not a safe space for most women and the University has a responsibility to manage that. It’s the same for any workspace. Is it okay for bosses to encourage constant 5 à 7s and hit on all the younger women that work for them?
Meezly 13:48 on 2019-03-08 Permalink
Actually, the university can and should do a lot more. I work in a global tech company where you’re supposed to disclose to HR if you’re dating a coworker (boss, minion) which may result in a conflict of interest. Every year, we are required to complete code of conduct training which includes fun stuff ranging from business bribes to unwanted shoulder rubs. I don’t see why a teacher employed by the university, or a student attending one, should not follow similar code of conduct guidelines to prevent predatory and/or exploitative behaviour. Sadly, human beings are prone to corruption and abuse of power, and most of us need rules to abide by.
I assume many of you have read the CanLit Accountable article from the male POV of a former Concordia student, which revealed the culture of toxic masculinity in CanLit permeating down to creative writing academia. And UBC had proven to be more concerned with protecting its institution than with the students who were victims of sexual misconduct. It’s not about university students needing to be protected, but about implementing a real system of accountability in an academic infrastructure that is rife with power imbalances of all kinds.
Faiz Imam 14:00 on 2019-03-08 Permalink
I echo the point about reading Healy’s original 2014 essay on this issue.
Here is a globe article about it at the time, which includes a link to the original post:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/books-and-media/the-danger-of-being-a-woman-in-the-canadian-literary-world/article21142628/
steph 19:34 on 2019-03-08 Permalink
If the school simply bans all types of relationships,they won’t ever have to deal with foul outcomes. Expel and fire all participants breaking school rules.
Kate 09:40 on 2019-03-09 Permalink
steph, you know an organization can’t possibly police the activities of adults in that way.
Chris 13:03 on 2019-03-09 Permalink
John B, that’s not convincing. Sure there’s a power imbalance, that’s not in dispute. But succumbing to a power imbalance is not necessary and not automatic. Ultimately, one is faced with a decision along the spectrum of: accept the advances and date the prof to get an A, or report the prof to his boss/police, switch schools, etc. I don’t even need to pass any value judgements on either choice. But if one *chooses* the former, then it’s consent. There are no knives at anyone’s throat here.
jeather 16:28 on 2019-03-10 Permalink
Organisations can of course police relationships between people in them — many do. There is absoultely nothing wrong with a school saying that professors can’t date students in their departments, that’s a perfectly reasonable rule that many other places have, just like places have rules about taking gifts or what clothing you can wear or all sorts of restrictions on your work-related conduct.
And of course it’s not as simple as “date a prof to get an A or tell the admin”, but go on.
JP 20:57 on 2019-03-10 Permalink
@Chris: Also, switching schools at the university level is not easy or even feasible in some cases. It can actually be a very complicated process and you might not even be able to get into the same program at another university. Not to mention, it might even require a change in city or town.